How algebra ruined my chances of getting a college education

Via Flickr by albastrica mititica

Algebra was responsible for the first F I ever got.

While I was never a straight-A student, I wasn’t a screw-up either. But tell that to Mexican-immigrant parents who dropped out of school after first grade and took pride in seeing their offspring get the education they never had. I’ll never forget that dreadful parent-teacher conference after that seventh grade F, or the silence in our minivan on the way home. There was no congratulatory feast at Shakey’s Pizza that night.

I’ve never passed algebra. In high school pre-algebra, I weaseled my way to a C by teaching my teacher how to play “Angel Baby” on the acoustic guitar. Geometry came next, and I passed with no trouble. In my senior year. my problem with algebra was shared by many other students and posed a threat to the record of my “California Distinguished” high school. So the administrators decided to count Accounting 1 as an algebra equivalent. I passed that with a B+.

When I entered Pasadena City College, in the hope of transferring to a four-year institution, the placement exam put me two classes below the California transfer requirement class of Statistics 50. I wasn’t the only one with this problem; 80 percent of my fellow incoming students also place into below-college-level math, according PCC’s research office.

Four and half years later, I still haven’t passed. OK, let me be honest – I failed algebra seven times. I started to question my character, my brain, my capabilities, and even my values. How was I able to write a cover story for Saveur magazine in 2011 but unable to pass a class that involved mixing numbers with letters?

Ready to break down in desperation, I made an appointment with my academic counselor. He pointed me to an experimental class called “Exploring Topics in Mathematics.” It promised to jumpstart me into Statistics 50—into the next-to-last class I’d need to complete in order to transfer. I immediately enrolled.

The class teacher was Professor Jay Cho, a slender, soft-spoken 41-year-old from Korea who had received his Masters in mathematics from UC Irvine. “You can just call me Cho for short, or, as some of my past students called me, notorious C-H-O,” he told us. Cho taught us how to complete Linear Equation problems by relating it to blood alcohol levels when you drink and drive. He used the almost-daily tardiness of the Goth girl to teach us relative frequency approximation of probability. It was a modern-day version of Stand and Deliver.

Twenty of the 35 of us passed the class. That was a far higher rate than normal for the level of math we were being taught.

But my story doesn’t end there. I still had to get through Statistics 50, also taught by Cho. And how did that go?

I failed. Cho felt I just hadn’t devoted enough time to studying. I wish the explanation were that simple.

According to the current regulations of California, I am ineligible for college, and I shouldn’t even have a high school diploma. The thinking in such policymaking is that 1) despite all the failed attempts, all of us who fail algebra are secretly able to pass it, if we just push ourselves a little harder. And 2) that higher education would be wasted on someone who can’t pass algebra.

But are those assumptions valid? I don’t think an inability to solve quadratic equations should bring me or so many of my classmates to the brink of high-school dropout status.

Now I’ve finally dropped out, and I’m supporting myself through writing. Many students who are jobless and trying to get a college education after 20 years out of school are likewise stymied by math. I would love to learn more about art, philosophy, literature, and history in a college setting. But math requirements will prevent that.

Should they?

Javier Cabral is responsible for (formerly Teenage Glutster), a food, booze, music, and general desmadre blog. He is an in-house writer for Sonic Trace KCRW and freelances for Saveur Magazine and Grub Street LA. He wrote this for Zocalo Public Square.


  1. Cindy
    Mar 22, 2017, 1:04 am

    Gosh so many of us struggle. I'm glad I'm not alone. I'm so sorry.

  2. Cindy
    Mar 22, 2017, 1:02 am

    Ditto. I posted same scenario.

  • Nick Danger

    "despite all the failed attempts, all of us who fail algebra are secretly able to pass it, if we just push ourselves a little harder"

    Why would that be part of the thinking?! No, there are certain QUALIFICATIONS for various degrees. If you can't meet the standards, you don't get the degree, whether it was a result of not pushing hard enough or simple inability.

    What you really seem to be against are having any standards at all.

    • Jeffrey

      Don't give up Nick, think out of the box. Go to a college that does not have as much of a higher math requirement, specifically out of state. (example- I live in Massachusetts where the math standards are difficult but went to a community college, where they have extra support for math, where tutoring is available and cheaper) I also have an LD, however, I went to a community college and passed Accounting 101, 102, which had 4 credit labs with a B and an A, and were not easy because of the courses were transfer classes to a university.

      I also barely passed with a C a Business Financial Math Class that had stats, algebra, and financial functions in it. In Massachusetts there are more requirements for math that the 11 credits that I passed. Therefore, I transferred to a college that had a business program that did not require as much math that this. Nick, I would try to go to a local Community College and try to pass Algebra, with some private tutoring which is very cheap. Good Luck.

      • Tanveer Moundy

        Different people remember their day when they were students and have some problems in math which really depressed them. Algebra was the most hated in this regard. You describe how to build students interest towards algebra and math. editing paragraphs paragraph editing is also stand with you to help your kids as well as make perfection in their educational concepts.

      • Jimmy

        Bucks County Community College in PA, NYU (Gallatin) in NY, Harvard Extension School, University Of Ottawa KS are ALL undergraduate degree programmes in the US that DO NOT REQUIRE MATH for undergraduate degree conferral, and all except NYU have online degree completion options. Info is current as of February 2014.

    • Amber

      To those of you who "get" Algebra- congratulations! While I have excelled in every other class, college Algebra is getting the best of me. It's not for lack of trying… countless hours and dollars spent on self-help books and private tutors- to no avail. More than anything, I WANT to be able to understand what I'm doing, but understanding escapes me. If Algebra is such a basic, elementary subject to master, then perhaps you would be so kind as to invest your time and seemingly superior mind to help someone like myself. No? I didn't think so. Those of you who have never struggled to grasp Algebraic concepts have most likely never known the feelings of hopelessness and extreme frustration that make up the personal hell I'm living in right now. You may be a mathematical genius, but THAT is one thing you will never understand. Based on your condescending tone, you must be a fine piece of work…

  • Mazer101

    Honestly? Algebra is unbelievably basic. I was introduced to Algebra at the age of 6 and had no trouble.

    This is my problem with your statement that Algebra ruined your chances of getting a college education: I'm an Aerospace Engineer with sub-par "creative writing" ability. I can write a technical report like no other, my grammar is nearly impeccable, my spelling is as well. I struggled slightly through my English and Liberal Arts classes that are required to get MY college degree, although "Music Appreciation" is in no way a help for Aerospace Engineering. If the requirement is a simple, low-level class to make you a well-rounded person…then I understand. Algebra is one level above arithmetic, which should be mastered in Elementary School. So, knowing that you failed Algebra….do you think you deserve a college degree in ANYTHING with an Elementary-level Math education? Would I deserve my degree if the nation's 4th graders could out-read me? Absolutely not. Imagine how worthless my degree would become if illiterate people had it? In mathematics, I believe MASTERY of algebra to be the beginning of literacy (like learning basic phonemes and letter interactions). I believe Arithmetic to be akin to understanding the alphabet. Calculus is literacy, but still not quite able to appreciate the beauty of the subject.

    Having said that, Algebra is unbelievably simple if you put your mind to it. In much the same way that Faulkner's "true" message is simple to determine with putting your mind to it. Having taken many senior-level math classes and seeing the math behind PhD-level mathematics, I can assure you that the difference between "Cat in the Hat" and Shakespeare isn't NEARLY as great as the difference between Algebra and what math can truly become.

    I don't mean to sound offensive, honestly. However, Nick Danger may have put his finger on it when he said you don't support having any standards at all.

    • Dina

      It's a good thing for you that your high school and college didn't put the same requirements for creative writing as they do for algebra, or you'd be considered one of those you claim "doesn't have any standards at all" because of your "subpar" abilities in that area. My son is a genius at creative writing and has been since he was 5 years old. He would write full scripts and scenarios, but can't grasp algebra. He has always been considered a gifted child. Apparently his brain is more advanced in one area than another, as is yours. But for some reason whoever created the high school and college standards that only appreciate Algebraic abilities, didn't have the intelligence to realize that not all professions require Algebraic knowledge, and not all geniuses have that knowledge as well. It doesn't mean they are lazy or disabled. It just means that they are more talented in one area than another. Just like most people are more physically adept in one area than others.

    • Jane

      Dear Mazer101:

      We hope that someday you will be up against a situation in which your continued survival depends on your ability to develop a skill which you are completely unable to grasp, because that is the situation which Mr. Cabral describes.
      It is fine that mathematics and calculus and differential equations and all the rest are required for majors in science and engineering programs' It is not fine when they are required to even get into college in the first place, especially for liberal arts and humanities which are not based on mathematics. It is very bad when today college degrees are required for jobs that many of us could have done straight out of junior high.
      It used to be that the few people who got through the eight grades in the little one room school house took a couple of years at a teacher's college and turned around and taught the same little one room school house themselves. Today you are required to have a degree to push a broom. Today you are required to have a degree in Early Childhood Education to babysit infants and toddlers!

      Just as people's bodies are greatly varied in size, shape, and strengths, so too are our minds. Just because you could do algebra when you were six years old does not automatically exclude everyone else of a more normal intelligence from the right to earning a relevant degree and earning a living.

      Have you ever tried to live on a minimum wage job? It is not possible without some real material assistance. 85% of the people who receive food stamps and other aid are employed.
      Rather than belittling someone who could not learn arithmetic or math or algebra, how about finding effective ways to help them learn, or better yet, how about making our requirements for non science and non engineering degrees more realistic and humane?
      I bet you do not do your own plumbing repairs. I bet you don't tune up your own car. I bet you do not clean your own heating ducts and chimneys each year. You let professionals with the proper equipment do those jobs. Why should they be required to pass algebra? Why should they be required to have a BA in anything at all?

  • PatRick

    The previous two commenters don't seem to understand what Cabral is saying. The statement that Cabral doesn't support having any standards at all is laughable if it weren't meant with all seriousness. It's at best a misunderstanding of Cabral's statement and at worst a willful twisting of it. Cabral is asking why his seeming inability to pass algebra should bar him from pursuing studies in other fields, unrelated to mathematics. While you, Mazer101, must get a kick out of mocking other people's inabilities, I can't help but think that you entirely miss the point that Cabral is making, namely that he is asking why his lack of aptitude in algebra would make him ineligible to receive ANY type of college degree. It's a better question than you're giving him credit for, and it makes both of you look quite ridiculous to assert that Cabral is either lazy or lacking in values for not being able to pass algebra. As the fact that he is currently self-employed and has indeed found ways of getting outside this issue so clearly demonstrate, he is neither lazy nor without values. Moreover, you address neither of his questions that he asks in this article. You mock the first one and ignore the second one.

  • floridagirl

    I too have been plagued by college algebra, I've failed (or had to drop before I failed) I think 5 times now, my degree is in criminology. It's the last class I need to get my BSAS lol. Well our governor in Florida stated that they are changing some requirements (like math) for certain degrees. I also think it's silly to not allow someone to further their education if they lack ability in one area. I received my Assoicate's Degree, graduating with honors due to my high GPA but once I transferred into a university my many F's in this stupid class have dropped it down and ruined all of my hard work. Atleast here, we have many professors from other countries which makes learning it that much harder. Hang in there, some day when they change the requirements, I'm sure more people will pursue high education. I also excel in writing.

    • John Smith

      I get criminology students all the time for remedial college math. They are some of the laziest students. Most of them want to be a cop because they think they just drive around all day and do nothing. They don’t want to do the homework either. It’s funny because they want to have authority over others but they don’t want to follow the rules themselves and lack self-discipline themselves.

  • Johnny Mills

    Seems like if you understand the concepts, that's literacy. If you can't solve the problems well, don't get a job involving math. Not sure why someone should be punished or have their options further limited if they have other talents…

    • John Smith

      A BS/BA means that you are well rounded, which is why you have to take history even if your major is programming. Don’t like to show that you are able to learn, then don’t get the degree, dig ditches instead or go to trade school. They should have certificate programs too, but again a BS/BA shows that you are well rounded.

      • Victor Andrade

        I agree. a bachelors demonstrates that you can take upon various subjects and achieve a basic understanding of them. that is why is called undergraduate.

  • Kristine Hood

    I am NOW a retired Licensed Masters Social Worker, Certified Social Worker and a member of the Academy of Certified Social Workers. I have additional certifications in School Social Work, and Medical Social Work (where I spent MOST of my working career). I am also a published author on the subject of Tourette's Syndrome. I had the above problems, with very little parental and academic support from school staff. While in GRADUATE SCHOOL, I took "School Testing". We tested each other and my fellow student quickly and correctly diagnosed me with "Discalcula". A learning disability. I finally understood that hard work CANNOT overcome certain brain processing problems without skilled teaching. The relief was astounding, and with skilled professional support I was able to learn enough Algebra when applied to my subject matter for a required Research and Statistics Class. Please go to the Special Education Department at your university and ask for testing and professional followup. Someone there will UNDERSTAND and NOT BLAME. The world NEEDS your talents. Don't let this stop you. I used my significant RIGHT BRAIN superiority to help thousands of people in my career. You can, too.

    • Vinnie Vincent

      So everyone has a disability now. What about the other students without a disability who are just lazy?

  • James

    Javiar's story is not at all unique and I believe it represents a fundamental problem with our educational system as a whole. The last two decades have really put an emphasis in higher math skills in order to produce more STEM college bound graduates. The problem with this approach is that while learning higher math(meaning higher math beyond arithmetic) is that a certain percentage of students have learning disabilities which inhibit the long term retention and understanding of certain math courses such as Algebra and Statistics.

    People with learning disabilities are not at all lazy or stupid, but have a disability which prevents them from doing certain things such as understanding higher applications of math. What our educational system should be doing is to make sure these students do not fall through the cracks and end up as high school or college drop outs. If a person has a documented learning disability and traditional methods of assistance such as providing extra time on tests in a private area does not result in helping the learning disabled student to successfully complete a math class, then it would seem reasonable that students such as Javier should be permitted some sort of waiver for the math requirement.

    Unless the student is majoring in math, engineering, or any science related major, providing such a waiver would make the most sense in order to properly accommodate the learning disabled.

    Otherwise, our educational system is part of the problem and by essentially forcing the learning disabled out of school because they couldn't pass Algebra/Statistics/Calculus, etc is creating the problem of allowing what are otherwise talented and intelligent people to drop out and end up with low paying jobs and student loans that they these students may not ever be able to pay back.

    I knew someone, an older student who like Javiar had the same problem with math. As a undergraduate student in her 50's, she petitioned her school's university to take Algebra outside of her college because she had failed this class 5 times. She ended up paying someone to complete the Algebra class which while cheating, allowed her to transfer the credits to her university and finally receive a degree.

    Students like the person I just described are those who have to resort to unconventional means to combat this problem that our educational system needs to address. My friend, who was Business major went out to become a very successful in her field of accounting, never using the Algebra which haunted her throughout her college career.

    It's time that our colleges, universities, and K-12 system make a fundamental change to education away from the "one size fits all" approach and create a system that is more realistic which would guide those whose strengths are not in math, towards other fields that do not require such high math skills. Not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, scientist, or engineer. Some of us become business people like my friend who can be very successful without having to learn Algebra/Calculus, and Statistics. We need as a society to be more aware of how our schools are disenfranchising the learning disabled in order to improve this societal problem.

    Lastly I will ask this question to anyone who disagrees. If students were required to take a semester of some sort of organized sport such as running or volleyball, would it be fair to not allow someone who is paraplegic an alternative to complete their degree problem? Doing otherwise doesn't make much sense, but that is exactly what our high schools, colleges, and universities are doing to the learning disabled!

    • Guest

      I just failed my algebra class at my Community College and It gives me more stress than I have ever had in my life. I am now going to have someone do it for me online and pay them. I cannot take the psychological problems it gives me anymore. I honestly tried my heart out to understand that subject, and understood it fine, but after each test, I failed them miserably… This is the only class I have ever failed. It is the only class that has ever given me thoughts of depression, and suicide as well. The pain cannot be tolerated any longer, for I will now resort to something that will bring me shame within my heart. : (

      • LAH

        Hey James,

        Who did you find to help you?

      • Logic Speaks

        I can completely emphasize with you! College algebra is the only course standing between me and my Associate’s Degree in Psychology. Faced with thousands of dollars in student loans I transferred to a four yr. university, only to be faced with tougher and much harder mathematics stipulatis of Stats I & I I. Now I’m faced with more student loans and nowhere closer to achieving my degree. Honestly, I would like to take a survey of all the Psychology BA majors within the last 20 years to find out how much mathematics they had to complete. Seriously, I think there is some type of conspiracy of keeping the workingclass, just that! The workingclass.

        • 700 ORIGINAL BEATS””.salvaceja

          You my friend hit the nail so hard…..its not a conspiracy

    • Helen R. Robare

      I have been diagnosed with Dyscalculia which is a brain-based condition that makes it hard to make sense of numbers and math concepts. I have papers from my doctor with the CAT scan to prove it and the Community College will still not exempt me from Algebra II. I made it through Algebra I after SEVEN SEMESTERS and only passed the final with a 61 (passing grade was 60) and because my teacher went through the test before the time limit was up and told me which problems had a wrong answer. I was able to correct one decimal…and so I passed barely! I was 56 years old when I decided to go back to school and I passed everything (and even courses I didn’t need but took because they looked interesting and because I had to take more courses a semester than just Algebra in order to be a full time student.

  • kjacksonemti

    As a fellow Higher Math Cripple, I definitely feel the author's pain.

    Both my parents were teachers. When a student they felt was other wise intelligent failed at something they considered a simple subject (and to teachers, they're all simple subjects) then that student was just 'undermotivated'. So when I started completely and utterly bombing algebra in 7th grade, they just figured the problem was laziness. I was first encouraged, then threatened, then punished and finally herded into a little homemade cubicle constructed out of two dressers and a desk. Every weeknight I was put in there because I just wasn't "able to concentrate". Of course, making my studying conditions easier for me to 'concentrate' in was basically just educatorese for 'lock the lazy ass in a dungeon until he gets motivated enough to pass'. Not only did I still fail to understand algebra, but I began to hate it like cancer.

    And it only got worse from there.

    So High School rolls around and I'm still unable to understand algebra. My high school math teacher? The most patient human being ever. Seriously. Mrs. Whittington was a saint. because she and my parents were close friends, I spent hours each week being personally tutored by the very woman whose class I took every day. Did it help? Not one single iota. My teacher never wanted to admit that a person couldn't be taught algebra, but at least she didn't assume that my problems with the subject were due to laziness. Unfortunately, my parents and just about everybody else in the education industry (yes, it's an industry) disagreed.

    It always amazed me that the standard response on the part of teachers when confronted by a student who fails abominably at mathematics generally involves words like 'unmotivated' and 'underachiever'. And that's when they're feeling diplomatic. But nobody seems to address the fact that we have millions of children in this country who, despite the best and worst efforts of virtually every adult around them, have never and will never grasp the finer points of algebra or any other advanced form of math. Are they all lazy and stupid? Am I? I'm an EMT-Intermediate with 17 years of field experience and I'm currently taking Paramedic classes. Does anybody here have any idea how complicated the human heart is? I do. I might not be the brightest crayon in the box, but if I can wrap my head around things like 3rd degree blocks, intrinsic firing rates and the effects of norepinephrine and acetylcholine, then I'm probably not stupid. Certainly not so stupid that my intelligence is a fundamental blockade to my understanding of algebra. And I'm pretty sure I didn't intentionally annihilate my chances at a college degree by failing at math out of a desire to spite my parents. I certainly didn't enjoy years of dreading the prospect of any and all forms of math every single day during the school year.

    Something, somewhere in our educational system is badly broken. I have no idea what or where it is, but it's definitely not working properly if a significant portion of students flunk algebra every year. And what makes it worse is the attitude on the part of educators that blaming the students is the answer. The students want to pass more than the teachers want them to, I assure you.

    • 700 ORIGINAL BEATS””.salvaceja

      I have cried over this algebra… not ashamed to admit it….im 33 with all the motivation in the universe to go back and gey my diploma so i can start college…..but i just cant grasp it….even tho i habe composed more than 1000 melodies….but now i feel im not alone …

  • For all and sundry

    Your blog is a great one. What really impresses me is that you are correctly mentioned that there are thousands of tools that are available to create a website or launch one but what matters is that you fit the fat one, the one that gives you all that is actually needed.

  • George Hilton

    There are two categories of students in this world. One are those who are very sharp and quick learning in Math and English. In the other category some lazy students are included who always hide themselves from difficult subjects. You may be one of them who is hating algebra. Now you can get help from video which is serving you to learn any kind of knowledge and inspiring you towards education.

    • kjacksonemti

      I don't mean to be insulting here and I mean this in the least damaging way possible, but you are an asshole.

      People who have problems with higher math aren't lazy any more than dyslexics are. People who have problems with higher math need help, not criticism. And this is precisely the problem with the state of education in America. Had I received some sort of individual help from somebody who understood that my brain just doesn't work like others… had my parents, teachers both, understood that not all students can be shoved into an identical mold and later kicked out like assembly line automatons… had anybody involved with my education recognized that I was working as hard as possible instead of just sitting on my ass out of sloth or spite, I might have ended up in a different place than I am currently: trying to figure out algebra on my own terms so I can pass Paramedic and not be a lethal threat to my patients in the process.

      The problem here is not the lazy student who habitually avoids a difficult subject. The problem here is the lazy educator who is quite happy blaming children for not succeeding in an assembly line educational system.

    • ejmr

      You are an extremely ignorant person. You obviously have never dealt with many people who have learning issues. For me trying to learn math is like banging my head against a brick wall, I'm never going to get through it. I have spent countless hours trying to do math, with no success. I have been tutored by countless people, gone to reviews and study groups with absolutely no success. No matter what I do I cannot get through math. Seriously George, you obviously have no place to say anything. People are not indestructible, some people including myself work so incredibly hard with no success. It is a very discouraging problem, seriously I'm embarrassed for you.

  • James

    George Hilton,

    "There are two categories of students in this world. One are those who are very sharp and quick learning in Math and English. In the other category some lazy students are included who always hide themselves from difficult subjects. "

    You sir live in an imaginary black and white world. Clearly we live in a world where there are many types of students. Yes some are lazy, some are motivated, and some are there because their parents essentially told them that they had to go to school "or else." Yet what you fail to grasp is that there is a type of student that has disabilities that prevent him or her from fully grasping a certain subjects such as what the author of this article describes. Students with math disabilities are the farthest thing from being lazy.

    "You may be one of them who is hating algebra."

    This is not an issue of hating algebra, unfortunately students with learning disabilities with respect to math and language are simply unable to fully grasp many of the concepts required to engage the subject matter. Again, these students with disabilities are not lazy/unmotivated people. Often what they lack in the capacity to fully grasp in math, they excel in other areas of their academic life.

    Don't be so quick to judge and stereotype people and realize that the world is not a black and white, two dimensional place.

  • Carl

    Math teaches you how to think.

    If you are not passing you are not thinking. It is not mixing up numbers and letters. It is understanding, and using, concepts through definitions, axioms and theorems.

    • But here's the thing–Javier did say he passed geometry, though what he means by "passed" isn't entirely clear. For some reason many high school students who struggle with pre-algebra and algebra manage to do fairly well in geometry. It was so in my case, though I don't know why that was. It's been a very long time, but as well as I can recall, the handful of axioms and all the theorems we had to work through all seemed to hang together a lot more cohesively than the content of my first year algebra had–both times I had taken that! I had to work for that 'B' in geometry, but throughout the process I always understood exactly what I was trying to accomplish in a way that hadn't been true for any other kind of math.

      Years after college and grad school, I found an old college algebra text that had belonged to my father. The striking difference in contrast to a first-year high school textbook was that it emphasized proofs a great deal more; it was like geometry, only with partly abstract equations rather than diagrams of lines, circles, and angles. In some ways, it now seemed even easier than geometry, because with algebra you usually don't have to keep switching back and forth between a diagram and an explanation. By no means have I mastered everything in my dad's algebra book, but I have studied enough of it to change my whole perception of the subject. I now enjoy picking at mathematical puzzles and often find I can solve them; ditto for following the proofs of standard area and volume formulas, or even deriving them as I did for the sphere without having ever heard of Cavalieri's Principle. (The chapters on mathematical induction and series in my dad's book were instrumental here.)

      So what, exactly, had been my problem with algebra, and every other type of math I'd had since the third grade? My perception is that the algebra curriculum placed greater emphasis on solving *instances*, or problems, while in geometry it was more about the underlying principles. In hindsight I'm almost certainly wrong in this view and I'm sure my algebra and pre-algebra teachers tried to teach it to me in the same way that geometry is taught. But for whatever reason I just didn't grasp that part of it, and there was no help for me back then, because even I wouldn't have been able to explain why I was having so much trouble with the topic..



    • Elmos

      Believe me, maths has nothing related to thinking. Math is just memorizing laws and solutions. I am doing very bad at math and my GPA was above 3.6 before I failed math and got depressed which made my whole GPA go under 3.0 now. Now I am with a credit for maths of 0 which is okay considering my GPA is going up again near 3 XP . I just need to take maths in a summer course. That is my plan now. The whole rubbish about math is the right way to think won't go by me. I passed statistics with ease! It is maths which I think is illogical and utter stupidity. My major does not involve maths, SO WHY AM I STUDYING IT? I did stat because I might use it in life but maths??? Because some losers who wasted their lives on studying maths realized that it has no other practical use other than making college harder and more difficult. So they said why not ruin their lives?! Yeah I had stupid teachers who refuse to re-explain examples and even make fun of my questions! They are stupid people who think that we care about maths, we don't. I will hopefully get a D and burn my calculator afterwards!


        “Math is just memorizing laws and solutions. I am doing very bad at math ” This is WHY you are doing very badly at math- bcs you think it is just memorizing. Its DOING.

    • Tess

      I totally agree! You're so smart! Good for you! Not every brain is a great at math. Great confidence vote for those who don't get it! VERY condescending! Not a good comment, get off the blog. I can write anything, I can tell you history, I can challenge my co-workers, and tell the IT dept. what the problem is. However, I don't get algebra… so take your BIG self, and your BIG smarts and FO! I think more than you do on a daily basis, Mr. Thinking! Now go throw a fit to your mommy and daddy, for not buying you that X-box game this week, and enjoy your basement accommodations!

    • me.

      literally eat a dick you scum sucking cunt monkey

  • Rosemary

    There are many reasons why a person may not be able to understand mathematical concepts. While I do not have dyscalculia I do have the inability to process algebraic formulas. After taking algebra 3 times with 3 different teachers, in-person tutors and paying for online tutors I was about ready to quit college and give up. Instead I went to see a neuropsychologist and had specific testing done to find out why I could pass every other class but that one. Turns out a brain injury from when I was younger caused permanent damage to the area of my brain that processes spacial memory. No one will every be able to teach it to me and no amount of applying myself will help. With the permission from the head of the psychology department I was able to get into statistics with out taking algebra and the college district is accepting that class as my math credit to complete my degrees in sociology and psychology. Its very frustrating to keep taking the same class with no results! Not only was it a waist of time for me but an added expense as well. Just because someone cannot complete algebra formulas does not mean that they do not understand math and it certainly should never hold someone back from continued education.

  • Jay

    If the student was lazy, he would not be able to do well in any of the other classes. Me personally, I did well in all of my college courses except for my advanced Algebra class. I passed Algebra 2 in high school, but when I tested for placement in CSU college, I was placed in a remedial based math class. I passed one part and failed the second one which is the last class before college level. In my case, I did well throughout the whole semester until the final exam and went from a 83% TO A 65%. It has nothing to do with a student being lazy or not putting in enough effort. Some students just don't have the same learning abilities in Math as they do in others.

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  • Ruben

    It seems impossible but maybe so. If you are really good and confident at the subject you are it might be that your just bad at math. The mind is a curious thing and works so many ways. See your just really not a math person. All the subjects you just posted proves it. Their is always that one subject someone is really not good at. But their are many jobs for you to get other than your looking for. For example like a Author or a Geologist or maybe a famous Speech Political writer. The world is your oyster and trust me there are many jobs that do not need math.

    • Jane

      Ruben, you said that "there are many jobs that do not need math". That is true BUT…
      the school system REQUIRES all sorts of math to get any advanced degrees. The school system REQUIRES high school algebra 1 and 2 and trigonometry, even if you plan to major in English in college!

      I have interviewed two dozen professional scientists and engineers who were gainfully employed in the field of their studies, and only one of them admitted that he used all the math he was required to study to earn his degree. The others used charts, graphs, computer programs, calculators, and slide rules to figure out exact numbers when needed.

      The requirement for math is a hoax! It is a way to keep us in school longer and a way for the schools and tutors to make more money. You might as well require everyone to design, build and maintain their own car and engine before they are allowed to drive one.


        Of course they don’t use all of it. How many doctors use all of what they learned in class? How many lawyers, business people, etc. But as an engineer, you don’t necessarily know what math you will need or when you will need to use it…plus some! so are you honestly suggesting that even engineers and scientists don’t need math or the training they get when doing math? Ridiculous. Please just stop.

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  • mims23

    Unfortunately, not only might a student have dyscalculia, but it could well be an inherited trait. In my case, my father, I, & my son have all been stymied by our shared inability to learn algebra. My father (born in 1911) dropped out of school after 8th grade, unable to stand the humiliation of devolving from a child who'd skipped 2nd grade to one who couldn't apparently function at normal levels, due to algebra failure. He ultimately retired from a management position in those simpler times. I (born in 1946), struggled through the required College Algebra to a then-acceptable grade of D, graduating cum laude with a BA in English. I became a teacher & later held professional positions in state government. I am a member of MENSA, scored in the 92nd percentile on the verbal part of the GRE, & am quite capable in non-mathematical fields. My son (born in 1985) has a slew of learning disabilities but through diligent effort forged his way past all of them except dyscalculia. With today's higher math requirements, he was never able to get beyond remedial college algebra classes, earning a terminal AA degree in Network Administration (this major accepted business math as the required math class.) Actress-model Brooke Shields (born in 1965) got mucho publicity in the '80's when she graduated from Princeton without being required to take any college math at all. I believe that in the UK & many other European countries, college students focus on their majors & do not have to take core curricula unrelated to their main field of study – why does the US insist that all comers must be math -proficient or be forever barred from four year, liberal arts degrees?

    • debi

      Great statements. I can do basic math easily in most cases.. but not without effort. basic algebra also .. But once i get into difficult equations and higher stats.. Im a goner!!! Im a musical genius and writer. I also have a high ability for reason…philosophy… But I think the part of my brain with numbers takes extreme effort to computate results. Im in college at age 50 and am in a stats class.. Its difficult and killing me….

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  • neal

    It is possible to get a degree without Algebra by taking Liberal Arts Math. If the school you are in doesn't offer it, find a different one. If worst come to worst, get a non-accredited BA and then transfer into an accredited MA that doesn't require math. I personally know several people who have gone this route. There is a way around the math.

    • Vinnie Vincent

      That’s a good attitude, avoid having to do something that is expected of everyone to obtain an accredited degree. This is good attitude to have in life also.

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  • tita

    me 2 my first c d and f was in algebra 1 hon but im in middle school so i still have a chance i guess

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  • Penelope

    Javier, you may not be able to get into a public university in California, but you should look at private options as private colleges can be more flexible in terms of entrance requirements and general education requirements. Before you instantly think that this would be too expensive, most colleges offer generous financial aid packages. Applicants who are first-generation Latino college students are in fact heavily recruited by private colleges since they add to campus diversity. You could also look into being tested for a learning disability as some other commenters have described. If you are diagnosed with a learning disability you fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act and universities must legally accommodate your documented disability.

    • Vinnie Vincent

      Of course those private colleges are more flexible, they’re called diploma mills. LOL

      • Victor Andrade

        yea and they only will cost you a fortune !

  • It's me!

    I have a similar problem. I am a college sophomore and I tested into the Intermediate Algebra class which is only a prerequisite for college level algebra. I have taken that very course twice and missed the required score by just a few points each time. I am an English major and I'm finishing my German minor and I cannot pass math no matter how much time I focus on it. I've studied formulas, done practice exams, and asked my peers for help and nothing helps me to pass the tests.
    Apparently, I'm smart enough in my German and English courses to be a whole semester ahead of other students my age, but I can't get the basic math credit. I can't do basic math in my head without flipping it all around. I don't retain formulas long enough to match them to test problems. Am I stupid? No, I'm not stupid. I can write all kinds of essays and I can do it in two languages. I've explored all kinds of things in my field of study, but I can't get a math credit to graduate college. What's sad is that a lot of people seem to think that people like me shouldn't be in college at all because we aren't "smart" enough for it.

  • Nowhere, Idaho

    I feel your pain, man.
    After more than 20 years of being an excellent bookkeeper, I 'attempted' to get a BA in Business. I failed, or dropped to avoid failing, College Algebra more than five times (I stopped keeping track).
    My doctor actually suggested I talk to the school's disability services people about testing for dyscalculia. They provided no testing for it, and looked at me like I was a lunatic.
    Honestly, I think they are trained, at least at this college, to refuse medical exemptions whenever possible as it would reduce the amount of money they would make on tuition and books!

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  • Ebony wolf

    Got a A+ in pre algebra but algebra is illogical
    “It’s logical” they say…bull a negative with a even
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    + to – every time. I hate the class and I was laughing
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    Like a stereotypical math teacher you would see in a movie…
    That ***** gave us homework on the first day…
    She gave us a worksheet that covers 2 days the day
    After the big EOC standard test…now that is not right!


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  • Algebra Sucks 101

    Algebra seems to do more harm than good for most people when they get to algebra. Algebra makes no sense at all, and you don’t get to ask when, what, and why questions.

    I figured out a way to do an algebra problem another way and got the same answer as my instructor, and do you know what grade I got for getting the answer correct? A big fat “F” lowering my GPA. Is math/algebra another religion? A follow, don’t question institutional society of know-it-none pompous jerks? Short story long, this shit ruined my life and set in depressions that still effect me to this day. I barely use addition and subtraction in my day to day life, yet people keep lying to us saying algebra is everywhere. Elephantshit!! We are not all ment to be MATH masters, or Doctors.

    May be I had the wrong teachers….

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  • T. Phillips

    I am currently trying to get by Bachelor's degree in Business Administration. I graduated from my associate's program with honors. I have just been inducted into the National Honor Society and have upheld a 4.0 through my Bachelor's program……up until now, anyway. I still need to pass College Algebra and Statistics…….which, of course, I have put off as long as I could! I don't think of myself as stupid just because my brain doesn't process Algebra; I seem to excel at all other subjects. My Algebra teacher can't spell, but she can graph lines like a champ! I find it ridiculous that you would get cheated out of a college education just because you can't do Algebra. I think California seriously needs to reconsider their regulations! Can you take classes online from another state? Best of luck to you! Don't give up!

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  • Traci

    I feel all this pain I have been out of school and want to go back…I was only required in High School to have two maths So I went with math I and 2 after failing algebra ,. Now trying to go back to school after a long time..I am lost…and can find zero help. I really need to start over like all the way back to fractions…It is sad..because I think schools should be about the job….training you exactly all you will do…funny In the career I want you program the computer to do the doses ….never will there be a time you have to do it in a math problem…just code it in and the computer does it…..and if the computer is down you are not doing it anyway…So yea People would be so much better at their jobs if they could train In their jobs. not crazy math problems you never use or see again.

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  • Algebra Sucks 101

    We don’t start out in this world hating anything, so if you hate mathmatics you may have been scarred by your inability to learn it fast enough. But look at it in this manner. Would you be held back in your education goals if you couldn’t run a mile, paint a Mins Lisa? Someone needs to check if anyone in their field can do a simple algebra problem. Like say a dentist, doctor, or attorney. I can guarantee they will have issues with it because their current career doesn’t demand they need to use it on a day-to-day basis. We need better teachers or something.

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  • Derrick Stevens

    I am up a 2:20am thinking about the fact that I dropped out because I failed algebra three times. It was depressing and frustrating. I studied on vacation, met with friends and tutors etc… But when exam time came around I’d bomb every time. Now here I am 49 without my degree working and being passed over because I have no degree, which I attribute to algebra 100%…its a tough thing, unfortunately.

    • sorry to hear this…some subjects are not according to one’s mental taste or capability. I am really good in Math and algebra (you can say that I love only these subjects)…but I feel bad…specially when reading your comments about not getting a degree because of algebra!!…I wish it was not essential to pass algebra to get your degree.

    • Kevin Eli Rivera

      I failed it twice, hehe, I ain’t gonna lie, if I fail the third time, I mind as well just go to plan b, get a certificate that get’s me a job that pays $11-15 an hour, at lwast it’s better than 10 an hour, but wait, man I forgot life ain’t fair, especially college!! I feel like a failure to my parents who are born in another country, since they won’t understand that the main season why I’ve been in a community college for 5 freakin years, is because of my math and probably science requirements, plus bizare english classes, but oh well, it’s life…I wish the best for all who struggle these moments, I’m glad I’m not alone… it’s a relief yet kind of a bummer.

    • Cindy

      Ditto. I posted same scenario.

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  • Margie

    Algebra, solving for X, inequalities, simplifying… of the devil and drives some people to the brink of insanity. I know, I am there. I have completed every class required for my Bachelor's Degree, and I am walking away at about $50,000. in student loans, and NO DEGREE!! My mind will NOT learn it nor remember it long enough to pass a test. It is confusing…one problem, you subtract or add, the next one, you divide…and they look the same!! Additive inverse, and crap like that…..For the rest of my life, I will make monthly payments to the dept of education to pay off my loans, and will remember each and every due date of just how stupid my brain is…..and what a failure I am…..

    • Republican

      The problem is not that you cannot learn it. You learned the English language which is exactly the same in regards to ( words look/sound the same but are not , rules seem to be broken all the time but are not cuz there are exceptions and easier ways to solve……the problem is the way you approach learning it .there are rules and symbols you must know , yes but this does not mean that you must do endless memorizing exercises and be confused and let down when you cannot recall the meaning of the symbol…….start with a easy problem , solve for that problem and then find out why it worked out , every detail of the equation. Then find the easier way to do this …….really man your just adding , subtracting and multipling the symbols tell you what order to do those things in.

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      • Mr.Mansuit

        Kahn Academy doesn’t coordinate with specific lessons given by a specific teacher. As a result there are a lot of questions that go unanswered, especially if the student has a learning disability. There’s no way to ask questions or talk to a professor about issues related to their lessons. I find that Khan Academy is a crutch for lazy teachers, and addled parents and students. Students can say “I tried”, parents can fob spending time with their difficult child off, and shirk their responsibilities. The teachers that recommend Khan are often at the end of their ropes, and they can no longer help the student. “Have you tried Khan Academy” is teacher for: I have tried everything to help you, and I’m sorry, I just can’t. The bottom line is Khan’s Academy is the root of a tragic failure waiting to happen.

    • Kevin Eli Rivera

      I’ve been in community college for 5 years, almost 6, no romance life, others of my same grad year of 2011, have their degrees, some already married, hehe, I guess I probably will continue be an underachiever, because in my family, we all need to be a college graduate, Im an artist, but not a mathamatician or grammist genius, I hope culinary school will give me some success. As long as I can survive with something related to art, I’m sure I won’t be begging for money, but help out the beggers…

    • Cindy

      Gosh so many of us struggle. I’m glad I’m not alone. I’m so sorry.

  • Guest

    Algebra certainly does make perfect sense – but that doesn't mean everybody's brain is capable of reasoning with that particular type of sense. What wouldn't make sense however, are certain academic degree programs possibly requiring algebra coursework that doesn't even apply to the professional field/trade of the degree; or employers in such professional fields/trades possibly requiring academic degrees that mandate some superfluous and irrelevant training in math. IF either of these scenarios are currently happening, then this certainly does need to change.

    By the way, when applying for jobs or making professional network contacts, you might wish to be careful about saying so many of the things in the prior posts here – like that you CAN'T do math, that your mind will NOT learn it, that you SIMPLY CANNOT do it, etc. That kind of language (even if correct) is nearly always interpreted and considered as very negative, and defeatist. Such attitudes will usually and appropriately turn off employers and professional contacts immediately (unless the field in question is full of overly-sympathetic and resentful math haters).

    Also, try to remember that even if you weren't a lazy or inattentive student, there ARE at least as many failing math students out there who genuinely are lazy and/or inattentive. The problem for the educator is being able to distinguish the difference, which as you can imagine, is much more difficult than just hearing all the usual and endless excuses. It is extremely unfortunate if many mentally-disabled students are being inadvertently included with the lazy ones, just because they present and look exactly identical to each other.

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  • richard

    Javier seems to have found a way to make a living doing something which he enjoys and thinks valuable. What does it matter whether he does or doesn't ever get a college degree?

    I'd like to win a Fields Medal. It would be wonderful formy self-esteem. Likewise I think it'd be wonderful if I were to be a pro surfer. Unfortunately, in both instances I lack the requisite skill.

    I am not particularly convinced that having a college degree signifies much anymore. In many instances it never did. What is clear, though, and this essay clearly expresses this even if only implicitly, is obtaining a college degree is now viewed as an entitlement.

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  • Erin Manthey

    Ok, my thoughts: 1) Most colleges have some sort of math substitute to College Algebra like Math for Liberal Arts or a Logic course housed in the philosophy department, so the idea of algebra alone standing in the way of a college degree is a bit far fetched. Though I'm not fully aware of if the requirements in Cali are different. 2) I'm probably a little harsh here in saying this, but shouldn't a four-year degree stand for some level of knowledge of breadth of subjects, so if you can't at least pass a somewhat mathematically geared course – I'm not convinced that you are deserving. On the contrast, no one would make a similar claim about English Comp, even though several learning disabilities affect people on reading and writing directly. 3) I'm aware that the way in which math is taught is in need of improvement across the board and unfortunately people coming from the most disadvantaged groups often get the worst of it. Those disadvantages often starting very young and permeating systemically 4) I'm all for both the availability of quality jobs that don't require 4-yrs (of which some exist already) and people being empowered to study the humanities outside of the college setting. Certainly, that's where most of my knowledge obtaining on those subjects has occurred.

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  • Jhon

    If you are really good and confident at the subject you are it might be that your just bad at math. The mind is a curious thing and works so many ways. See your just really not a math person. All the subjects you just posted proves it. Their is always that one subject someone is really not good at. EDUCATIONBOARDRESULTS

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  • Adam

    I dont like it when people say “Youre a math person and I dont believe you!” Good for you. You have firmly established that we are different and just because you do it, means I automatically grow the power to do so. I spent 6 years in Pre Algebra, 2 years in Algebra 1 and 1 Semester in Geometry. Hated it all, barely passed or Failed miserably. So I can play 5 musical instruments very well. So can you! WRONG! Comparing apples and oranges. I didnt get to go to college because of a barrier with Science and Math. Tired of academia maniacs pushing incoherently difficult subjects on young kids.

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  • Your post is very nice. I just want to share my personal experience here. I hate mathematics while I’m a science student I always pass in minimum marks. It’s a tough job for those who don’t have interest in particular field.

  • TF

    I am almost 40 years old I graduated high school in 1993, it took me 9th, 10th and a summer, of going to summer school to finally pass 9th grade Math with a 80. I couldn’t take another year of it, and so my guidance counselor told me since I had a numerous amount of music and art credits, they were going to let me graduate, but I was not going to obtain the State of NY regents diploma, Skip to a million college classes later, I still can not get through Math. Like I said I am almost 40, because of this, I can not get a job that pays any money, I am basically doomed. I live at home with my 64 years old parents and 9 year old daughter. I can do clerical work or work retail , fast food but to make it big you even need a college degree these days to be a Administrative Assistant (aka) a friggin secretary, which all our moms where taught to be in high school back in the 50’s and 60’s. I feel defeated… Well thanks for the ability to vent.

  • C J

    My whole life I disliked school- I am a gifted Musician & never needed “Math Skills” until recently as at age 50 I will probably never open for Van Halen or The Steve Morse Band ever again! I saved as much money as I could my whole *Adult life = Nothing EVER went up my nose that I Paid For! In 2003 I rigorously studied for 2 Life-Changer Examinations & it Turns out that Despite being an intellectual Genius that Mathematics was not “Easy” for me. 1. I scored 176 on the Stanford-Binet IQ EXAM( I think that is 14 points lower than “Kasparov”/”Greatest Chess Player in History”/Sorry Bobby Fisher Fanatics”)! I ironically scored a “PERFECT” 800 points in the “2 Language Arts” portion of the SAT & only 540 points in the Mathematics portion, collecting a Total Score of 1340- All of this at age 39. **** DEAR OP, do not give up if you can financially & Physically *Afford the time to “Master Algebra”- it will require **REPETITION more than anything because Short Term Memory IS EXACTLY as it “sounds”- Cramming just doesn’t serve GOOD PURPOSE! Algebra requires MEMORIZING processes in order/ie. “SYNTAX” – You need to memorize “The Rules” Every Day or every other day ( no more than 2 skipped Days = back to memorizing on the third day! I doubt you need a tutor- Use the Textbook & get a STACK of 3in x 5 CARDS, write the questions on the Front & the Answers on the Back- carry the “Stacks” with you at “All Times” & make them your “Constant Companions”. This way you *Literally SEE what you need to commit to memory more times than ANY OTHER METHOD THAT I KNOW OF! Please believe me that “LITERALLY SEEING THE “RULES” over & over consistently BLOWS AWAY other study methods- if you can’t grasp some particular “Aspect” then go to your teacher and get HELP- He/SHE is **GETTING PAID! My Younger Brother(40yrs) is a Triple Boarded Pathologist who was a Surgeon & Hated the Hours-( = No time for Wife & Daughter). He went back to School & is now Boarded in Adult, Child & is a SPECIALIST in ** Forensic Pathology! He had a “Phonetics Learning Disability” as a child/Adolescent & our Parents were told that He would Probably never “Go to Colege” = ROFLMAOFF!! Moral is- I believe that you can Conquer Algebra & Moreover, get a Job that you Deserve. Peace, C H L IV

  • Yadda Yadda Yadda

    Algebra has almost nothing to do with the vast majority of jobs in the world today. The fact that the author got a B+ in accounting, which really has far more to do with many jobs in America than algebra will ever have, shows that the author knows REAL math that have REAL applications in life, and not some meaningless quadratic equations which you’ll never use again outside of the classroom.

    I also got screwed by the placement test from PCC, and even on my English, which is laughable since I’m also a writer. I spent years going through meaningless English classes where I barely put forth any effort at all to succeed whereas so many other students were struggling. And my algebra classes? I got placed at Math 125, but my first math teacher was horrible, professor Kasfy, then my second was also horrible and treated her classes like we were in elementary, but I passed with a C. Then Math 131 came, and my next math teacher was unbelievably horrible, to where my fellow students were teaching HIM how to solve problems, because he was so old and sometimes hours late to class, as well as deaf and should have been fired, but he held tenure so he was still teaching. I and so many others were failed by him, but I think he doesn’t teach anymore.

    Then my next Math 131 teacher was the second math teacher for Math 125, and again she was horrible, and I had something like a 68% or 69% and I failed. I did all the homework and took excellent notes, but NOPE, still failed. These assholish math professors had no mercy on a LIBERAL ARTS major like myself. Then a new revolutionary course came out, which was Math 150, like a precursor to Math 15. I took Math 150 and it was by far the most refreshing math class I’ve ever taken, and most of what was taught had REAL LIFE APPLICATIONS, things that I would USE in my life after college. Needless to say, since it had real relevance to my success outside the classroom, I was able to learn it much more easily, and I passed with an 88%, because they had some home buying project that I missed the deadline for, believing I could turn it in a day late for less credit and still get an A.

    Then Math 15 came around and I had professor Faccuseh, and what do you know, she was beyond horrible. The way she taught, even some of the math we did, she was teaching us anthropology and retarded Punnett squares, and how they supposedly had something to do with math?! I dropped that class early, sensing a class-wide failure, which inevitably happened.

    I took Math 15 again with my first ever math professor, professor Kasfy, except this time, he had learned much from his previous teaching mistakes, and had become a much better math professor. I’ll be honest, at that point I had been doing so much math for so many years as a liberal arts major, when barely any of it had anything to do with my career goal as a history/english teacher myself, that although I was enthusiastic about getting an A, I was just so depressed and dealing with all manner of personal problems that I would be grateful with just a C.

    I didn’t do any homework for two whole chapters, and then a couple more assignments missed from the third chapter, but as usual, I took excellent notes. I got two D’s on my first two tests, but I learned from the professor that as long as one did the homework, you could still pass with D’s on your tests. “Fuck”, I thought. So I decided to get A’s on my tests so that I wouldn’t get screwed on the homework. The third test came around, which was the longest and typically hardest, and I got a 92%. Then the fourth test came, and with making some excellent study notes, I got an 80%, but that fourth test seemed like the hardest of the class. Then the fifth test came and I thought I got an A, but I got an 84% instead.

    Still, through my calculations, I realized I only needed to get a solid 60% on my final to pass the class, and though I had wishful thinking of a B and regrets of not getting an A, I still focused and studied to at least get a D. I studied for 2 and a half hours. I got a 94% on my final. Excellent study notes, and studying all that I didn’t yet fully master from my previous test corrections.

    I got a B in the class. Ironically if I had done the homework for the first two chapters, I would have gotten higher scores on my two first math tests and would’ve gotten an A in the class. But severe depression hampers my ability to do well in certain subjects, and I’ve been suicidal for years. It’s hard enough to find the will to succeed in college math classes which are my worst subject, when I struggle just to find the will to live.

    Still, I greatly despise America’s utterly brain-dead emphasis on math, math, math! Without literacy, knowledge of history, appreciation of arts and culture and music, or understanding of philosophy and biology, what is math? Emptiness, that’s what it is. A nation full of empty-headed idiots whose only talent is to solve academic math problems. What brain-dead society would encourage such a future? Funnily enough, there are companies that seem to be choosy about who they hire in fields where math and science majors tend to turn to after getting their degrees, and they prefer the guy with a bachelor’s in HISTORY and a master’s in business or accounting, rather than the straight math major. I hope all straight math majors find themselves jobless and unemployed in the future, save only as professors, trapped in the fake world of academia.

    As for myself, I have always had a great talent when it comes to understanding and exploiting all things financial, and I’ve been making accurate stock predictions for going on 15 years now. I think I’ll get a teaching job and then go straight into the financial world, and it’s irrelevant that I don’t have a business or accounting degree, because real world experience trumps the fake academic world every time.

  • Alex

    Its quite possible you have a learning disability of some sort. Which is not your fault and if so I’m sorry you’ve had these issues.

    If not however, anyone can learn algebra. It really isn’t very hard if you understand basic arithmetic and certain definitions (what a monomial is, coefficient etc) because the rules sre the same except with letters.

    • Laura Churchill

      Look up Dyscalculia.

  • Billoriley9191

    It will be a damn shame if I never get a degree and get saddled with all this debt over college Algebra. I don’t even care about doing well anymore. I just want to pass it and never look back. It is the only math requirement I need and for the life of me I can only think of maybe 3 jobs (I don’t even want) that demand you know how to deal with 10X^2-9x=1

    It’s kind of a shame when you think about it. I had a foreign tutor who was appalled at how my math book explained how to do seemingly simple topics. She said that we were making it way harder than it needed to be.

    It’s whatever though. Gunning for a D this semester. If not, I am taking the class at a CC and paying someone to do all my work/tests. I don’t need to know this stuff. hardly anyone does and it is just a hurdle for the sake of preventing people from graduating.

    It’s a messed up system we have here in the U.S. “You want to be a writer? Better learn how to do Algebra cause we all know your work won’t sell if you can’t find the midpoint of a parabola.”

    • LAH

      I serioulsy feel your pain and so do many others! it is just plain wrong! 35 plus students in the class and only 8 left standing, receieving praise and adoration for their stupendous achievement from the instructor!!! You are spot on!!! It is messed up! Explain, how, a person can EARN straight A’s in every subject and fail with a capitol “F” in Math?

    • truthtalk5

      Preach dude!!

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    • Denise

      Perhaps you need to worry about the problem solving skills mathematics will provide you with and stop paying someone to do it for you.

      • Billoriley9191

        Math teaches you how to do math. It can show you how to critically think and solve problems, but that isn’t taught in school. School in America teaches you wrote memorization.

        Anyways. I’m fine. So I’m gonna go ahead and dodge your insult. That comment was a year old man. I wonder what was even gained from responding to this?

        • Wilhelm Felix

          I do agree with you. Even i am a programmer and i do it as a job. I am self employed and i love making websites and mobile apps. Even Thinking of taking it to the next level (Social, OS)

          Yes. Math is stopping me right now from getting my degree. I failed it 2 semesters ago. (algebra) Now i am taking it again. I am going to cheat. I have decided to cheat. Not cheat with answers. But cheat using examples. I am going to write them all down in a clean sheet of paper. Also. No. I don’t even need algebra for programming. All i need is plus, minus, multiply, divide. Simple math.

      • zakgee

        I dunno, his solution sounds like good ol’ problem solving to me.

    • Amandizum

      THANK. YOU.!!!!

    • Cindy

      Hi. Ditto. Four attempts. With my 21 college courses at traditional college I had a 3.8, until I was told you can go no further in your area of interest until you pass Algebra. I moved and took it at UAA and my book was labeled Intermediate College Algebra II. I knew I was doomed. A straight A student in biology, sociology, English Lit, etc and I can’t pass Algebra. It has defeated me. I don’t want a degree in business or basket weaving, I would be happy with a BA in Biology, but unobtainable. I am now 50 and can not progress professionally. I get top achiever of the year awards from my employer but fail to ever get a promotion because I don’t have my degree. I’m not spending 20k on a business degree just to get a degree. But those around me who do advance. No win situation. So very sad. Did your teachers let you use a scientific calculator to store your formulas? Mine didn’t. If I could store the formula I could perhaps work the problem well enough just to pass w a C, but that’s not an option. All my college credits gone to waste. A smart brain stopped dead in her tracks. I really beat myself up over this.

  • Trey

    This depresses me because I need one math class (the school claims it is not algebra extensive, yeah right) to move on and I cannot pass it. It took me about 8 semesters to pass Elementary algebra. What is worse, I racked up a ton of debt that i need to pay off in order to get back into college, which I really want to do

  • TexasOiler

    I’m in a similar situation myself, I’m in massive college debt and haven’t even scratched the surface with remedial algebra classes, let alone college algebra. I’ve attempted to take the remedials twice and withdrew from both. I have a 3.7 gpa but everytime they suggest I take an algebra class, I freeze with fear and terror!

  • John Rudolph

    This is ME in a nutshell. Successful computer tech, ALL the classes DONE for my degree except for…..MATH! I am a published author and a part time musician too! Screw math!!!!!

  • Laura Churchill

    I think all of you who struggle with math should look up Dyscalculia. I’m a long time high school dropout because I can’t use math above a fourth grade level. Now I’m 35, sick of dead end jobs, and I’m going to apply to srs vocational retraining so I can be tested for the learning disability. Cross fingers. I just might get a ged and be able to get a real job.

  • Lisa P.

    Thank you Javier for this article. I am 50 years old and only recently diagnosed with ADD. After failing algebra following my third try, I was appalled that no matter how well I did in my other classes, it didn’t matter. All the math up to algebra was fine for me, and then I felt as if it were a completely different language. I ended up leaving school and getting my GED. This is back in 1983. Any thoughts I’ve had of going to any college, even just for an Associates has always ended when I see the Algebra requirement. I too am good with language, love history and art, but I just need to find my own way. Best of everything for you. Lisa

  • I have to say, this thread is a bit heart-breaking. I had heard of this — folks getting blown out of college because they cannot get past Algebra — and I believed it but to read story after story like this makes it painfully real. (My experience was in middle school and high school math.)

    I understand there is a growing movement to abolish the Algebra requirement for majors that do not really demand it, but that may come too late.

    If it helps, I am about to bring a free “new” Algebra app to the web. Quotes on the “new” because I offered something similar years ago. It really helped struggling students, but the on-line market wasn’t quite there then and I had other projects to work on.

    It has been re-written from scratch and includes a ton of new features but the core idea is the same: it simulates having a private tutor at your side while you do Algebra. You get help with and automatic checking of each step, not just the answer. And there is unlimited practice and self-testing arranged like video game missions so you can practice enough until you internalize Algebra.

    It is in pretty good shape already, and I would be happy to help folks on this thread figure out how to use it and get going on Algebra. I could prolly handle friends of friends, too, then you can help each other. (It has a built-in forum where messages can be exchanged.)

    Final note: right note it just covers about two-thirds of HS Algebra I, but what we have seen is that once kids get over the initial hurdle a light goes on and Algebra gets easier. And I plan to do the rest of Algebra I over the next few months anyway.

    The promotional site is and that has a link to the training site, or just ping me at ken at tiltontec dot com and I’ll help you get rolling.

    Cheers, Ken
    ex-Algebra teacher and private tutor, now software developer

  • Justin Stark

    What if I told you there’s a four year school out there that doesn’t require Math?

    • Liberal Lord

      Why not just name the school, asstutd?

  • Schindler

    Couldn’t identify with or agree with his article more. In high school, I passed the second semester of geometry with a C, and my mom picked me up early from school and took me out for pizza when she got the report card. (pathetic, this reaction from just a C, but up until then, I had passed every math class with a D. I might also add that the only reason I passed was because my teacher offered extra credit to people who stayed after school for tutoring.) My senior year they plopped me in a computer business math and I finished the class A FEW DAYS before I graduated. It was stressful, to say the least.

    Now in college, it took me two years to even GET INTO the statistics class I’m taking now. I failed basic math twice, then finally took a pass/no pass basic math as my last resort. I have nearly every class I need for a bachelors degree, but I can’t pass this math class. I’ve been studying literally every day and going to tutoring, but every time I take a test I fail it. Math is an unbelievable source of stress in my life. I’m a cultural anthropology major, I do not need this much math. I know I do not lack motivation, and I know I am not stupid. I can churn out a seven page essay in a couple of hours, I can draw from life better than most art majors I know, I can read a lengthy novel in a day, I can give you a perfect summary of everything we learned in tenth grade history, I can pass any other class you throw at me without studying or even cracking open the text book, but MATH is another story. I’m not even sure I’m going to be able to graduate because of this one stupid class.

    It isn’t right to say someone should be barred from higher education because of their disability with math. Before colleges required higher maths to graduate, we did perfectly fine. Many scholars and people holding higher ranking positions today did not take these math classes that are forced upon modern college students. Does this mean we shouldn’t trust these people with their positions anymore? If people who can’t perform college level algebra are “unworthy of holding college degrees” then we should test anyone who graduated without taking said math classes. They are absolute frauds– people who can’t pass math classes thinking they can perform a job that has nothing to do with math!! The gall of these people.

    • LAH

      Same old story!!! How is possible for a student to complete all the academic work necessary to EARN a BS and fail at Math? I ear this so often, and sadly, I am one of the victims as well. I’ve even heard my Math Instructor admit to not being able to spell, write or compose a proper sentence. How did he get his degree then? he should not have, after all, you should be able to MASTER your English courses as well as he does Math right?

      • John Smith

        I couldn’t get my graduate degree in math if I was illiterate. Where did your instructor go to school? Same old story, students being dishonest and blaming the teachers for their laziness. Figures!!!
        Not being able to do Algebra is equivalent to not being able to read at a middle school level.

    • Loti

      I am doing high school math. I want to do public health i know that i will fail stats of i do not get math right. I know how you feel.

  • Great! Every Mathematics Student who have hate for the Algebra i think every student has same story just like Javier Cabral but these sort of Problems made by the students itself that i cannot clear this sort of subject….

  • crisbo

    Javier, thank you for sharing your experience. I too, had the same problem you did. I am anglo saxon, but for what it’s worth I placed below the the examination for the New Jersey Math college Math Test. It took me 5 times to “exit” Algebra. That was many hard hours, of work, toil, and sweat at the college tutoring building. I hope that you don’t let this deter you from other things. Unfortunately many major corporations use standardized tests and if you want to pass through certain licenses, (Teacher Praxis) tests all of these contain advanced or “college algebra”. It is very sad, because I don’t think having to factor out polynomials should have anything to do with teaching Early Childhood Education. To this day, if someone mentions an advanced Math class to me, I cringe in terror. On the fifth, time, I simply had a enough background knowledge to pass the test. Sadly enough, I had the similar experience of trying to find a solidly, thorough teacher to explain math to me. It just goes to show there are many math and science teachers that can perform math equations and do experiments, but few have the expert content knowledge to teach important advanced level skills. Ty for sharing, good luck!

  • Anonymous Writer

    I wanted to be a teacher in 6th because of all of these problems /:

  • Thomaise

    You could look into doing your degree abroad. See if Canada has the same stupid rule, or any other english speaking country?

  • Benz

    Transfer to a college in Texas.

  • Benz

    I am working on a MBA and about to take stats again next semester. I want to add a finance concentration to finally make big money so this time I am really work hard in Stats.

  • sammmy

    I am a math instructor at a community college and it’s funny how I never see older generation Americans or European students have problem with Algebra. That is because they are conditioned to study hard to earn a good grade.
    The younger American generation on the other hand are spoiled by years of grade inflation, continuously decaying educational standards, and teachers that are afraid to ask students to study. If you teach people like idiots telling them that they will pass the class solely by attending, at the end they behave like idiots refusing to apply the slightest effort. In the past I used to give a pre-test containing problems similar to the incoming exam. Majority of the cass did not complete the pre-test when it was voluntary, coming to the exam completely unprepared, and correspondingly failing it. On what grounds do such people demand a passing grade, really? Nowadays, I make the pre-tests mandatory and a large part of the student’s grade. Now everybody is compelled to complete the pre-test and gets a good grade on the exam. So it is possible to FORCE people to learn; the same people that were claiming lazily that they “couldn’t get it” …
    Corresponding to the expected lazy student population, most american textbooks in act of desperation teach algebra like a set of rules for memorization, not for understanding. That fails inevitably because algebra is based on LOGIC! If you don’t get the logic, you won’t be able to apply it in the infinite set problem variations that may occur!
    I agree that large part of the Algebra taught will not have application in the student’s job or life – who cares of polynomial factorization for example. On the other hand Algebra, when taught correctly, teaches you how to apply logically a limited set of rules to an infinite set of situations. In that aspect Algebra is an exercise in LOGIC. Being logical in life DOES matter …

    • Christian Granado

      Being a math instructor I wouldn’t expect you to
      understand. You have made several statements which I must respectfully disagree
      with. I will now proceed to quote you on various statements that you made and
      give you my personal view on them.

      “I am a math instructor at a community college and it’s funny how I
      never see older generation Americans or European students have problem with
      Algebra. That is because they are conditioned to study hard to earn a good grade.”

      Now here you are implying that if you study hard you will get a good
      grade, which means that we are only failing Algebra because we just don’t study
      hard enough, which is quite a rude statement as you are referring to an entire
      generation of vast cultures, ethnic backgrounds, and levels of intelligence, and
      stereotyping all of its members as lazy.

      “I never see older generation Americans or European students have
      problem with Algebra.”

      This quote states that the older generation don’t have problems with
      Algebra, which implies that only the new generations are the ones finding
      problems with the subject.

      “That is because they are conditioned to study hard to earn a good grade.”

      Here you state that the older generation does not complain because they
      study hard, thus you imply that the newer generations complain because they don’t
      study hard or are just lazy.

      “The younger American generation on the other hand are spoiled by years
      of grade inflation, continuously decaying educational standards, and teachers
      that are afraid to ask students to study. If you teach people like idiots
      telling them that they will pass the class solely by attending, at the end they
      behave like idiots refusing to apply the slightest effort.”

      Well you have made it quite obvious here haven’t you? I guess I can stop
      stating that you are implying these messages as you have just essentially
      provided my proof for me on a silver platter, if you will.

      You believe that the source of the problem is that students nowadays don’t
      study hard enough and thus don’t pass. Because you are a math instructor I will
      just assume that these formulas and functions just come naturally to you, thus
      you cannot comprehend, as this is just second nature to you, that there are people
      out there that just can’t understand these formulas and equations because those
      people, myself included, just can’t understand how to get from one point of an
      equation or formula to the next. I believe that the very thought of someone not
      being able to understand Algebra, or any other math topic, is so alien to you
      that it just perplexes you and leads you to try to find a logical and
      reasonable solution or answer to this strange statement, which is how you came
      about the solution that studying is the root to solving this problem.

      “In the past I used to give a pre-test containing problems similar to
      the incoming exam. Majority of the cass did not complete the pre-test when it
      was voluntary, coming to the exam completely unprepared, and correspondingly
      failing it. On what grounds do such people demand a passing grade, really?
      Nowadays, I make the pre-tests mandatory and a large part of the student’s
      grade. Now everybody is compelled to complete the pre-test and gets a good
      grade on the exam. So it is possible to FORCE people to learn; the same people
      that were claiming lazily that they “couldn’t get it”.”

      Now here you state that people were given a pretest in the past and did
      not do it, came to class and failed, but now that the pretest is mandatory
      people do it and they pass, thus you came to your conclusion that you could
      force people to learn. While this is a decent example and does convey laziness
      you are missing the point. The people in your example were able to actually do
      the practice test, as you stated that they did do the practice test and thus
      pass. The problem here is that we can’t do any form of Algebra, so if you had
      given us the practice test, we would have done it, gotten everything on the
      practice test wrong, and then failed the test. See you imply that just by
      simply doing the practice test everyone, in theory, should pass. I find that to
      be quite childish, I will elaborate. In order to be able to pass the test by
      doing the practice test we must first be able to pass the practice test itself,
      but if we can’t do that then what would you suggest? By your theory we should
      have a practice test for the practice test, and if we still fail then we should
      have a practice test for the practice test for the practice test for the test,
      and so on.

      The problem at hand is that there are those that do everything in the
      class that is required of them, study countless hours, and by the end of the
      year they can’t even hold up a D in the class, while in other classes they have
      B’s and A’s. Obviously here the problem would not be studying as we can see
      that some of these individuals are not lazy or stupid as they can hold decent
      grades in other classes. So then if the root of the problem is not dedication,
      then what is? I believe that the root of the problem is the ability to
      comprehend the material at its source. I will give you a specific example, in
      fact, I will use myself.

      During my freshman year of high school I was forced to take Algebra 1, I
      obtained a C the first semester and barely a D the second. I was then, in my
      junior year of high school, forced to take Algebra 2. Now, if I was barely able
      to pass Algebra 1, why would they think that I would have any chance at passing
      Algebra 2? To say the least, I failed both semesters, but if your were to look
      at all my other semester grades for that year, you would not find a single C or
      D, I got all A’s and B’s, hold the 2 F’s I got for Algebra 2. I tried my
      absolute hardest my first semester, I truly did. I studied, I paid attention in
      class, yet I still did not pass the class for I could not comprehend the
      equations, let alone remember all of them when the test came by. Now, I will
      admit that I did not try at all the second semester, but how could you expect
      me to try the second semester when the first I failed? It makes sense that the material
      is just going to get more complex and challenging as the year goes on, so if I could
      not pass the basics of Algebra 2, how then would I pass the more advanced forms
      of it?

      “Corresponding to the expected lazy student population, most american
      textbooks in act of desperation teach algebra like a set of rules for
      memorization, not for understanding. That fails inevitably because algebra is
      based on LOGIC! If you don’t learn the logic, you won’t be able to apply it in
      the infinite set of problem variations that may occur and it will be
      “confusing” all the time!”

      Again, you state that we are a
      lazy generation, and even state that it is so obvious that we are lazy that
      even those that publish the textbooks know about it and prepare for our
      laziness! This is quite rude as you have just attempted to place the blame of
      the overly-complex material present in the textbooks on my generation. You also
      state that Algebra is based on logic, while I argue that it is based on
      equations, again it only seems obvious and logical to you because you are a
      math instructor. I see here that, once again, you fail to see that it is not
      that we cannot simply do these problems because we are too lazy to learn the
      logic behind the functions and equations behind these problems, but in fact
      that we cannot comprehend the very equations and functions themselves, thus not
      understanding the logic behind solving what to you may be a simple question on
      a test.

      “I agree that large part of the Algebra taught will not have application
      in the student’s job or life – who cares of polynomial factorization for
      example. On the other hand Algebra, when taught correctly, teaches you how to
      apply logically a limited set of rules to an infinite set of situations. In
      that aspect Algebra is an exercise in LOGICAL THINKING and everyone needs to
      exercise that in real life.”

      So here you agree that Algebra itself is, in fact, actually useless and
      the only gain it provides is the teaching of logic. If so, then should we not change
      the system to teach logic in a more effective way? We see here that Algebra is
      obviously not working as some people are being denied College just because of

      Logic as defined by Merriam Webster:

      A proper or
      reasonable way of thinking about or understanding something.

      A particular way of thinking about something.

      The science that studies the formal processes used in
      thinking and reasoning.

      I think it
      would be a better option to instead teach philosophy rather than Algebra as I feel
      that it would convey the same message of acquiring logic, while allowing more
      people to pass and gain their college degrees.

      I, at the
      root of everything, feel that your personal problem is that you can’t put
      yourself in other people’s shoes and see things from their point of view and
      understand their dilemma. I would also like to assure you that I by no means am
      stating that Algebra is a useless topic, I am able to see others perspectives
      and I can see how Algebra is a very valuable subject, but not for all, this is
      why I suggest that we keep the subject of Algebra, but as an elective course. This
      would solve many problems as students uninterested in this rigorous topic would
      not be riddled with the stress of this course, and instructors, such as
      yourself, would be glad to know that each and every student in their class
      chose to be there and thus cares deeply about what they are learning, which in
      turn also takes away the stress of instructors of having to teach students that
      are uninterested in what they are teaching and not have to be as worried of students
      getting bad grades as they actually care about the subject and thus are subject
      to do more work for the class.

      As I have
      spoken with some of my teachers I am aware that teachers can get lower pay, or
      even fired, if a great deal of students are not passing their course. This is
      neither the teachers fault, not the students, as teachers are not to blame for
      getting students that don’t care about the subject that they teach, while
      students are equally not to blame as it is not their fault that they were
      forced into those classes which will not play a role in their future plans.
      That is just another example of a problem that my proposition would resolve.

      Well, thank
      you for your time, and I apologize that my response was very long, but I had
      quite a lot to say. Have a great day.


        While your main point is that math disabilities are real, you lack reasoning skills that actually undermine a large part of your argument- that algebra isn’t important as a tool to develop logic (and thereby) reasoning skills for all areas of life- such as just for example- writing a clear and cogent persuasive essay.

        • Christian Granado

          I wrote a reply to you, but I’m not sure if it sent correctly. At any rate, I don’t feel like retyping all of it again. If it did send then disregard this, if it did not then this will just be a summary of my reply.

          Anyways, the whole point of my reply was to get you to read my original comment completely. I have reason to believe that you did not read my entire comment as you imply that I’m saying that algebra is useless. If you had actually understood what I was trying to say, and you had read my entire comment, you would understand that what I’m trying to say is actually the quite the opposite. In fact, you said that my main point is that math disabilities are real, when that’s only part of my point. Please, read all of it, I know it is quite lengthy but you seem to have missed my points on alternatives and the usefulness of algebra. Yeah, that’s right, I don’t think algebra is completely useless. So please, do read the entire comment.


            Christian, I think you missed a whole bunch of points- your writing is hot mess. It demonstrates your lack of clear and logical thinking while you keep telling others they are missing the point. I want to show you step by step where you are making false assumptions, faulty inferences, and taking long, windy (and wordy) paths to finally end up agreeing with the person you claim is wrong, but it would be incredibly time consuming and I would have to tear apart your entire rambling and repetitive say. I honestly wouldn’t even know where to begin…. so one might wonder if you have a math learning disability, and/or writing/thinking disability and/or you fall right into the category sammy says is the main problem (he does not say it is the ONLY problem) the lazy/blaming everyone else category. In the end, you would probably accuse me of missing your points all over again…

            Never the less, here are a couple pointers:

            You/Christian: “you are missing the point. The people in your example were able to actually do

            the practice test, as you stated that they did do the practice test and thus passed… In order to be able to pass the test by doing the practice test we must first be able to pass the practice test itself, but if we can’t do that then what would you suggest? By your theory we should have a practice test for the practice test, and if we still fail then we should have a practice test for the practice test for the practice test for the test,and so on.”

            Me: Sammy never said the students PASSED the pre test (not “practice” test as you keep misquoting it). He said they TOOK the pre test. By doing this, they can figure out what they passed and didn’t pass, thereby using it as a study tool….somehow you are assuming that the students took a “practice” test and passed it. I could be wrong herem but If they all took and passed a pre-test Christian, I don’t think they would be in the class, they would already have known ALL of the material.

            Christian: “Now here you are implying that if you study hard you will get a good grade, which means that we are only failing Algebra because we just don’t study hard enough, which is quite a rude statement as you are referring to an entire generation of vast cultures, ethnic backgrounds, and levels of intelligence, and

            stereotyping all of its members as lazy.”

            Sammy said that BASED ON HIS EXPERIENCE all his students claimed they were working hard when they weren’t, were failing and then when FORCED to take a pre-test,(an effective diagnosis strategy) they actually began to pass the actual test-test.

            This is not to say that there aren’t people with genuine learning disorders, and perhaps they dropped sammy’s class after the pre-test- who knows? But sammy’s experience IS valid, in fact you will hear sammy’s lament from many, many teachers teachers and professors- not just sammy.

            Christian: “I believe that the root of the problem is the ability to comprehend the material at its source.”

            This is the closest you have gotten to the bullseye of the problem in your long, long, and horribly written post.

            Christian: “I yet I still did not pass the class for I could not comprehend the equations, let alone remember all of them when the test came by.”

            You are now agreeing with sammy who complains about the low expectations of the textbooks which teach to the formula and not to the root of the thing- the logical approach to math. I would add that you are correct in that you SHOULDNT HAVE TO MEMORIZE formulas, you should have incorporated a logical approach so thoroughly through practice that memorization should have NO PART of it.

            You quote Sammy: ““I agree that large part of the Algebra taught will not have application in the student’s job or life – who cares of polynomial factorization for example. On the other hand Algebra, when taught correctly, teaches you how to apply logically a limited set of rules to an infinite set of situations. In that aspect Algebra is an exercise in LOGICAL THINKING and everyone needs to
            exercise that in real life.”

            Christian: “So here you agree that Algebra itself is, in fact, actually useless and the only gain it provides is the teaching of logic. If so, then should we not change
            the system to teach logic in a more effective way? We see here that Algebra is obviously not working as some people are being denied College just because of it.”

            Me: Where does sammy say algebra is useless? He says “part of it will not have application in a student’s life.”

            He says,”…when taught correctly, …everyone needs that in real life…”

            You are twisting his words to a point that it is clear you are either completely misunderstanding what he is saying or you are just trying to be misleading so as to (in your mind) create a good argument. All you achieve is proving that a) your thinking is that muddied and unclear or b) you think your reading audience is that dumb to be so easily misled. I suspect it is the former.

          • Christian Granado

            Ok, so I made a very long reply to you, took me a very long time to make, but it seems it didn’t send again. I’m sorry. I will get back to you in some time.

          • Christian Granado

            Opening Statements:

            First of all, whether you like my writing or not is irrelevant to me. You can go ahead and say that my writing is a “hot mess” or that my post is “horribly written”, you’re entitled to your own opinion. Its also irrelevant to me that you think I may have a “writing/thinking disability”.

            Nevertheless, I do feel the need to address the fact that I don’t see how my original post is a “hot mess”. Its simple, for the vast majority of the post all I did was quote Sammy and then give my opinion on what he said. With that being said, I will now proceed to defend my original points, while making some new ones.

            Point 1:
            I said: “…you are missing the point. The people in your example were able to actually do the practice test, as you stated that they did do the practice test and thus passed… In order to be able to pass the test by doing the practice test we must first be able to pass the practice test itself, but if we can’t do that then what would you suggest? By your theory we should have a practice test for the practice test, and if we still fail then we should have a practice test for the practice test for the practice test for the test,and so on.”

            You Said: “Sammy never said the students PASSED the pre test (not “practice” test as you keep misquoting it). He said they TOOK the pre test. By doing this, they can figure out what they passed and didn’t pass, thereby using it as a study tool….somehow you are assuming that the students took a “practice” test and passed it. I could be wrong here but If they all took and passed a pre-test Christian, I don’t think they would be in the class, they would already have known ALL of the material and have passed it already.”

            First things first, I don’t think my misquote is a big deal. Now, correct me if I’m wrong (and I suspect that you will as you claim that i have a “lack of clear and logical thinking”) but both a practice test and a pretest imply the same thing. Both imply that there was a test-like assignment given out prior to a test which covered roughly the same material that would then show up on said test. Both the terms involve practicing for a test that will be taken at a later time.

            I would also like to add that if they all took the pretest and passed it, that would only mean that they were all very ready and highly knowledgeable on the material that would be tested on said test, not on everything in the class. Unless you’re talking about a pretest to the class itself, but more on that later.

            Point 2:
            I said: “Now here you are implying that if you study hard you will get a good grade, which means that we are only failing Algebra because we just don’t study hard enough, which is quite a rude statement as you are referring to an entire generation of vast cultures, ethnic backgrounds, and levels of intelligence, and stereotyping all of its members as lazy.”

            You said: “Sammy said that BASED ON HIS EXPERIENCE all his students claimed they were working hard when they weren’t, were failing and then when FORCED to take a pre-test,(an effective diagnosis strategy) they all actually began to pass the actual test-test. While some hard data would be great, being an online poster, we do have to go by his stated experience unless you just think he’s a big fat liar.”

            Yes, what Sammy said is based on his experience, and considering that I have made some arguments and points based on my experience, I would be quite the hypocrite if I actually expected that he bring up hard data or if I called him a “big fat liar”.

            Now what I said was in response to something else Sammy said. I will quote it.

            Sammy said: “I am a math instructor at a community college and it’s funny how I never see older generation Americans or European students have problem with Algebra. That is because they are conditioned to study hard to earn a good grade.”

            This is why I called Sammy’s statement “rude”. He’s saying that the older generations and Europeans don’t complain about algebra and that is due to them studying hard and getting good grades. This implies that anyone that’s from one of the non-European younger generations is complaining about algebra because they’re lazy and don’t study hard.

            While this may be part of his experience as a professor, and I’m not putting that into question, it is still rude to categorize such a large group of people like that.

            Point 3:
            You said: “Also, this is not to say that there aren’t people with genuine learning disorders, and perhaps they dropped sammy’s class after the pre-test- who knows?”

            Remember that thing at the end of point one that I said I would talk about later? Well this is it!

            Unless you are talking about students dropping out of the course after failing the first pretest to their first test, then you are most likely referring to a pretest to the class itself. However, Sammy did not mention a pretest to his class, he mentioned giving pretests to his exams.

            Sammy said: “In the past I used to give a pre-test containing problems similar to the incoming exam. Majority of the cass did not complete the pre-test when it was voluntary, coming to the exam completely unprepared, and correspondingly failing it.”

            See, it wasn’t a pretest to a class, so why anyone would drop a class based on doing badly on their pretest is beyond me. Nevertheless, even if they were to drop from the class for whatever reason it may be, it would be completely irrelevant.

            Considering that the problem here is a mandatory algebra, dropping it, if even possible in the first place, would mean nothing as it would only be postponed to a later time. Nothing would be resolved by dropping the class, the problems would still be there, just to be faced at a later time.

            Point 4:
            I said: “I believe that the root of the problem is the ability to comprehend the material at its source.”

            You said: “This is the closest you have gotten to the bullseye of the problem in your long, long, and horribly written post.”

            Thanks, I guess. Yeah, the problem is that some people, such as myself, have a difficult time understanding even the source of the material.

            I also, once again, feel the need to address that your views on how well my post was written are irrelevant. However, I will apologize for the strange way it turned out. I pasted it from Microsoft Word and it ended up looking really strange for some reason.

            Point 5:
            I said: “I yet I still did not pass the class for I could not comprehend the equations, let alone remember all of them when the test came by.”

            You said: “You are now agreeing with sammy who complains about the low expectations of the textbooks which teach to the formula and not to the root of the thing- the logical approach to math. I would add that you are correct in that you SHOULDNT HAVE TO MEMORIZE formulas, you should have incorporated a logical approach so thoroughly through practice that memorization should have NO PART of it.”

            First of all, while I do agree that formulas should not have to be memorized, I never said that. I said “remember” not “memorize”. However, since they both have similar meanings within the context of the conversation (same with pretest and practice test) I don’t really mind. Same goes for “equations”, not sure why you said “formulas”.

            I never agreed with Sammy. I said that I did not pass the class because I did not comprehend the equations, not to mention that when it came time to take the test, I could remember none of them. As in I could not remember the procedures to the equations, mainly because, as I keep saying, I didn’t understand the procedures in the first place. There was always that one step in the equation where I got lost, where I didn’t understand how to get from that step to the next.

            Point 6:
            Sammy said: “I agree that large part of the Algebra taught will not have application in the student’s job or life – who cares of polynomial factorization for example. On the other hand Algebra, when taught correctly, teaches you how to apply logically a limited set of rules to an infinite set of situations. In that aspect Algebra is an exercise in LOGICAL THINKING and everyone needs to
            exercise that in real life.”

            I said: “So here you agree that Algebra itself is, in fact, actually useless and the only gain it provides is the teaching of logic. If so, then should we not change the system to teach logic in a more effective way? We see here that Algebra is obviously not working as some people are being denied College just because of it.”

            You said: “Where does sammy say algebra is useless? He says “part of it will not have application in a student’s life.””

            Algebra in itself is useless, according to Sammy that is. The “part of it will not have application in a student’s life.”, as Sammy said, is algebra itself. According to Sammy, we don’t need algebra for all the things that make up algebra, such as the numbers, equations/formulas, etc. we only need it for logic. I’ll even quote him.

            Point 7:
            Sammy said: “On the other hand Algebra, when taught correctly, teaches you how to apply logically a limited set of rules to an infinite set of situations.”

            That’s right, when you teach algebra correctly, it teaches you logic and how to apply it, not how to solve random, complex equations. If this is the case, then why is algebra a mandatory subject?

            Don’t get me wrong, learning logic and how to apply it is very important, and I agree that we must have a requirement for all students to take at least one class that teaches logic and the application of logic. However, considering the importance of teaching logic to students, would you not agree that the most logical choice would be to make it as easily understood as possible for most students?

            This is why I suggested Philosophy. If we incorporate Philosophy alongside with algebra as a requirement, meaning that by graduation students would have to have taken at least one of the two, then we make it easier for students to learn about logic and how to apply it overall. If you learn better with numbers and equations then you are free to take algebra and learn a logical approach through that class, however, if you prefer literature and theory then Philosophy would be a better, less stressful way of learning logic.

            Closing Statements:
            You said: “I could go on, but it’s just sad and depressing that someone whose thinking and writing AND math is so poor goes around blaming others and doesn’t even UNDERSTAND what they are saying.”

            Once again, you are free to have your own opinion on my writing skills, its irrelevant anyways. As far as my thinking and my understanding, well I do believe that I have adequately defended my points in this post. Although we will see how well my points and comments hold up if or when you reply to me again.

            You said: “I believe you – that you MIGHT have a learning disability in math”

            Thank you for at least considering that I have problems when learning algebra, I guess.

            You said: “but you seem to think that the other areas of your thinking are just fine and they aren’t. Its sad that you got such good grades in school in those other areas, because you certainly aren;t showing it here”

            The only areas that I could possibly show in my comments are my knowledge of what I was taught in my English class, as in my writing skills. And as far as my writing skills go, you have been very vocal about how good you think they are. However, my good grades is school are also my knowledge of school and science. Although for the latter it all depends on what subject of science.

            If my knowledge in those areas aren’t shown in my comments, well that’s because they weren’t called for. The topic of this conversation doesn’t require that I show my understanding of history or science. Frankly I don’t really understand how you came to that conclusion, unless you’re implying that just because I’m not good at algebra that I’m also bad at everything else.

            You said: “in the end- you are proving sammy’s argument to be the correct one- that the school systems are just passing students through whether they can demonstrate the ability to think and reason and communicate- OR NOT.””

            Again, I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. I do think, I think about many things, such as why we should have alternatives to algebra to better fit everyone’s learning style. I can also communicate, I’m communicating with you right now. The format and style of it, as you claim, isn’t the best (and that’s a huge understatement), but I can still do it. And I’m obviously able to, in one way or another, get my point across. As far as my reasoning goes, well that’s all subjective. If you disagree with me then of course you’re going to think that I have bad reasoning, that’s normal. My reasoning is only bad when its proved wrong, until then my reasoning still stands.

            Once again, thank you for your time, and I do sincerely hope that I made my post clearer and not a “hot mess” this time around.


            Hi ChristianI,
            Though I do think this most recent post by you is better, I responded in a harsh and bitchy way to you previously and for that I am sorry. I actually DO believe you that there are serious math disabilities out there. I just don’t think that means you throw out what is really a basic math requirement (~8th grade) for a minority of students with this disability. I don’t know what the answer is- but I don’t think that is it. I think I got torqued because as a teacher, I could really relate to a lot of what Sammy had said and I frequently deal with students who don’t want to do the basic, minimal requisite work and then they a) complain profusely about every single thing EXCEPT that, and b) pronounce loudly how proficient they actually are even as the evidence clearly does not demonstrate that. It really is mind boggling the sense of entitlement which I projected – perhaps unfairly- onto you. I do hope that they come up with an objective diagnosis for what is probably some kind of processing disorder and set up an alternative class that people could take. In the meantime, best of luck to you.

    • LAH

      Are you kidding me? I am an older student! I see lots of us around the CC. We are working fulltime! Ignoring our children, not living lives, filled with stress and feasr of losing our jobs! in order to pass algebra. Our degrees are hanging on it, but we fail, Why? We are set up to fail! that’s why. You Professors and administrators try to be a single parent, driving across the county 2 nights a week after working all day and driving to and from our jobs. it’s impossible! I tell you this system is flawed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Offer 152 in A&B, then we Might succeed, (after a 1 year session of torture) but oh no, take it away and serve only highschool taught Algebra students and watch the adults flounder and fail. Now that is what you call success?

      • John Smith

        If you really learned it before you wouldn’t fail it now. It’s like riding a bike, so you probably goofed on in high school. That’s a very basic subject.

        • Jasmine

          A really basic subject for you. It always amazes me the arrogance people have on the internet of how you can automatically judge someone you have never laid eyes on. Then have the audacity to assume that they refuse to study or are simply someone who didn’t study enough in high school. Get over yourself buddy. I’ve always struggle with math. Took tutoring and study countless hours it’s just really difficult for me. All of the formulas you have to remember as well the conversions it is a lot. However in college studying History and Law has always been easy where I have receive A’s while other people have found it extremely difficult. I don’t simply say they aren’t studying because I find the subject basic and they don’t.

          • Steve Webber

            I’m 50 years old and only passed Algebra II in high school because I went to a tutor every day. Even with help I barely squeaked by with a D-. I did better in Geometry, relatively speaking. Fortunately, the math I had to take in college was more of a logic class. When I took statistics in grad school I got my highest grade in a math class since 6th grade. In any other class, I could have told you within 5 points what my score would be after taking a test. The strange thing about algebra is that I could never tell if I understood it or not. Of course given my history “not” was a good guess. I shouldn’t have gone to college, in the opinion of a few posters. I have had a very successful career that I couldn’t have had without a Master’s. It is criminal that people may be deprived of the opportunity that I had due to their inability to master a subject that has no bearing on their chosen field.

        • Sean Kingsmill

          I know this is an old comment but i imagine you’re the “sniping troll” type hanging around comment sections waiting to inject your unneeded and unwanted opinions ; so i feel this comment will easily makes it’s way to you. Everything you have said on this comment board has been revolting, and you should be ashamed of yourself. When you have this number of people with the same exact problem, one starts to think it might not be the students fault ; yet you still feel it necessary to cut so many down. If you really are a professor, you got into it for the wrong reasons. It clearly wasn’t to teach or enlighten people, but to stroke your own ego & look down on others.


        “You Professors and administrators try to be a single parent, driving across the county 2 nights a week after working all day and driving to and from our jobs. it’s impossible!”

        Your argument is pathetic. It reminds me of when I attended a subpar university (the students- NOT the professors) in the midwest. It was an advanced math class. First the students began complaining about having to know trig. Then they complained about having to know algebra. Then they complained that they were students who worked and therefore it was unfair. My jaw dropped each time. Up until then, I didn’t know students that DIDN’T work. I thought we all knew that you should have passed lower level math before taking higher level math. It was breathtaking to hear every single student blame the professor in that class. The last day, I wrote him a long and sympathetic letter that such a good teacher should have to put up with such a shocking level of idiocy (see above). I now am in the same situation as sammy and yes, its hard, but I am excited by the challenge. It really IS the era of- don’t take responsibility and blame others for your life as clearly evidenced by sammy above.

    • Mrs. D

      I want to disagree with many of these statements as well. I don’t know what “older” generation you are referring to but I am an older nontraditional nursing student. I was an honor student in H.S and passed algebra, geometry, and trigonometry with an A. I started Nursing school, already an LPN and was required to take college algebra and statistics. I got an A in statistics on the first try and failed algebra twice; on the third try I finally passed with a B because I took it on line and could use my book for constant help. With each attempt, I went to the student help center weekly and paid a private tutor as well; my children who were in HS at that time taking algebra and doing very well couldn’t master the material I was challenged with. This algebra is much more difficult and unnessasarrily so. It is also taught in a very confusing manner and I feel it is a set up for failure!! My sister teaches math in India and she said “math in the US is a joke because if it were taught in a student friendly manner people wouldn’t be subjected to failure, they make learning it harder than it needs to be and therefore steadily unmastered!” So to say that people lazily claimed they could not get it is absurdly exaggerated and says very little about your approach to teaching…you would be the professor who gets a D on rate my professor with that attitude. And by the way, I graduated nursing school summa cum laude at age 43 despite my algebra struggles so you can’t categorize people as lazy because they just don’t get it. I’ve been teaching Anotomy and Physiology for medical assisting for 8 years and I would NEVER attribute a students failure to them simply being lazy, its a difficult subject and I re-evaluate my teaching style first before saying a student is lazy.

      • monimillie33

        Thank you for saying this being that it’s coming from a teacher/instructor! I have very poor thoughts of the “instructors” who have these thoughts and feelings about those who have troubles with learning the subject. I think it’s extremely crass, insanely grandiose and downright borderline cruel! Smh…

    • Helen R. Robare

      Excuse me?!! I am one of those older students having gone back to college at the age of 56! I studied and used tutors for Algebra I and it still took me SEVEN tries to pass the final with a grade of 61 (passing grade being 60). I worked sometimes 6 hours a day on Algebra homework alone! I could NOT pass that course! I got straight A’s in everything else. I worked my tail off to pass this course and if it weren’t for one teacher going through my final and telling me which questions I had gotten wrong so I could (hopefully) correct it I would have failed the course again! Then they tell me for a general studies degree I need Algebra II also!! I was medically diagnosed with Dyscalculia but the Community College would NOT accept it as a learning disability even though I had doctor statements and copies of the CAT scan! Don’t tell me that I was/am lazy and just refuse to learn Algebra! Maybe it’s easy for YOU but I’m sure if there was something you were medically unable to do and you were told to do it or else you were lazy you would take exception to that! IF you had no legs and couldn’t wear a prosthetic leg because of infection at the site and somebody told you that you HAD to get up and walk…and you knew you couldn’t…and then others told you that you were simply too lazy to walk…then you would know how some of us feel about Algebra!

    • Vincent Vince (Vinnie)

      Exactly. Most of these people are lazy and feel entitled. Being mathematically illiterate is ok for them, but they have to be able to read and write and a lot of them can’t even or won’t even do that. Most the people aren’t learning disabled. Whenever I hear that I know it’s bs. I’ve had learning disabled students who really try. The problem is most of all the students I have don’t want to try because they’ve had 12 years of being passed through high school. The homework I assign is online for the most part so I can track this. Even if you have trouble with the material I can tell if you attempted it. Some can’t or most likely refuse to do stuff that’s at a 5th grade level and they’re college students. I use self paced software and help students one on one. They don’t show up to class or work outside of class which is a requirement. I have one student right now who’s on her 3rd time taking a remedial math class and she’s a junior and has to take at least 3 more math classes for her science degree. She graduated high school and had this material in high school right before attending college. How did she graduate if she’s mathematically illiterate. We cater to these spoiled brats to keep our jobs. I’ve bent over backwards but they don’t want to do the work. Working one hour a week in class in not working on the material, especially if you have trouble with the material. They keep coming up with excuses like most of the jerks on this site. I wouldn’t want to work with people like these. Also, why would you want to keep repeating the same class over and over again if you hate it so much. The point I’m making is even if they have trouble with the material, they don’t even attempt to work on it nearly enough because they’re so lazy. I see these students checking their social media on their phones. I tell them not to do it but it just gets to a point where I’m tired of it. They’re supposed to be adults but they don’t act like it. It’s really disgusting because there’s no parenting at home and common core sucks. Those in power want equal outcome and will get it by lowering the standards for everyone. NOT EVERYONE IS SUPPOSED TO GO TO COLLEGE. The people running the government don’t care because they keep giving these dumbasses student loans, another form of predatory lending. When I ask them why they don’t work on the material outside of class I get all these excuses. Some tell me they do and then I show them how I can use the software to monitor what they’re doing. Some of them complain. It’s getting to a point where the teachers love the software because it maintains accountability instead of blaming the teacher. The majority have a bad attitude. Why wouldn’t they’re attitude be bad when they have 12 years of just being passed along before they get to college? You can see this bad attitude in most of the posts on this site. Most of these students aren’t disabled. Also, people who are disable get extra time, etc… so they are allowed to pass. I’ve given all my students extra time and it still doesn’t matter because they don’t study. I’ve asked students who play sports if their coachers would allow them to play in the game if they didn’t come to practice. The answer is ‘no’. So how do they expect to pass a math test without doing homework or studying? They don’t care because the main problem is they have a bad attitude.


      You bring up important points. A friend from Japan tells me that every single high school student takes calculus- that in Japan you will not graduate high school without passing calculus. And yet, we keep lowering our standards here in the US, specifically Southern California where a ‘D’ is considered passing a class.

  • Buddy Holly

    I am in a similar boat but I disagree with the author on some concepts. First of all, math is not some magical or impossible subject. It is very poorly taught in American schools which are already infamous for being very poor at educating students. Furthermore, the rabid feminization of the American classroom has succeeded in leaving boys behind. The students who usually do well in American math classes are the five females sitting at the front of the room who gravitate toward the rote memorization methods of modern feminized teaching and the rest of the class sits there confused. Once the poor math foundation is established it is very hard to recover from. The problem with the American style of math teaching is that it avoids teaching concepts or presenting math in such a way that students can grasp what they are doing. Math instruction is basically just telling students to memorize the steps to solve the problem. The student probably has no idea why they’re doing what they’re doing or what the relationship is between the world and that math or what the topics within that class have to do with each other. I’m 30 and currently pursuing my second degree and I still struggle with math. It’s nearly impossible to find a good math teacher anymore. They either don’t know the material well enough or they don’t know how to teach it in a relatable way. Math is a language just like Greek and anyone who studies languages can tell you that if you just study the language without learning some of the culture you will never be good at that language. The same goes for the way math is taught in America. The “culture” behind the math “language” doesn’t get taught so many of us are left struggling with no way to contextualize the material in our own minds.

    • Jennifer Robins

      Oh god. So now it’s women’s fault men are failing at math too huh? Just throw that on top of the heaping pile of things women are blamed for. Lol oogie boogy feminist destroying America one math man at a time!! Moohaaha. Next:world domination.

      • AlgebraScam

        As a woman with over 50 years of wisdom i reached the realization that female teachers are worse math teachers than males.
        I understood higher level math alot better when taught by a male. They just teach it differently. The male brain is wired to understand and communicate math concepts better, while female brains are wired for linguistics (which explains why so many boys struggle with language classes and writing) multiple research studies over the years have shown this. The problem is that schools hire more female teachers at the elementary level when math foundation is being laid.
        I refuse to hire a female tutor to teach my sons concepts that they failed to grasp at the hands of female math teachers.
        Oh and the “feminism” of today is quite different from the feminism of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s. In my time we fought for access to education and equal pay. Todays feminists fight for silly things such as to have more female video game characters in a game and then complain that there are too many female video game characters being degraded. LOL


          “The male brain is wired to understand and communicate math concepts better, while female brains are wired for linguistics ” Then why are girls ahead of boys all through elementary school? And where is this data you quote that I am reading for the first time ever? I call do do on you…and whats wrong with wanting more female characters in video games? Buddy Holly would have a fit if male characters were underrepresented (the rabid feminization of video games!!!) but its OK to not have any female characters and to threaten female gamers with rape when they ask for that. OK-sure.

    • CatKX

      I can’t stand Feminism either, Buddy Holly. But you are wrong. Math DOES ruin lives.

  • Sam79P

    I was in the same situation, as you all but I found a way to finally get that coveted math credit. After 14 years I had FINALLY completed all my course requirements except the dreaded math requirement. I struggled for over a year…it was impossible for me to pass a math exam. So here is what I did to finally get that glorious paper in my hand (please keep in mind that I was enrolled in an online degree program within a public state university): I enrolled in an Aleks online College Algebra course. Certain Aleks courses qualify for ACE credit. ACE is the American Council of Education. A lot of universities accept transfer of ACE credit in lieu of official college credit. My school accepted my ACE-credited Aleks course as an official math credit, and this allowed me to graduate. The best thing about it was that my Aleks course did not require a proctored exam to complete. I was able to complete the course at home (with the help of some life-saving resources like Mathway and Wolfram Alpha), and once I completed the course with better than 70%, Aleks provided the credit, which I got approved by ACE. My school accepted the ACE credit, and here I am today! I hope this helps people :)

    • John Smith

      In other words, you cheated because Mathway and Wolfram Alpha give you the answers. I teach self paced courses using ALEKS and we have to lock the browsers so students can’t cheat with these. It’s terrible that you cheated and then went online and told everyone else how to cheat also. What a scumbag you are.

      • AlgebraScam

        So because this student used an APPROVED RESOURCE–namely ALEKS and ACE with assistance from other programs to STUDY you accuse him of cheating?
        So are the colleges and universities cheating as well since they commonly accept ALEKS and ACE?
        Now i understand why your teaching and understanding of how the brain works, in terms of learning Math, is substandard.
        You better quit while you’re ahead, you are making professors nationwide look REAL BAD.

  • Howisthis

    Now with Common Core updates having hit the GED, you had better know Algebra II or you are in trouble..

  • rapp123

    I stumbled on this site by chance, doing a google search for “how algebra textbooks confuse students”. As I started reading the comments, they sounded exactly like comments I receive about a book my company has published, the Algebra Survival Guide by Josh Rappaport. Only our comments have a happier ending. We receive a lot of comments from people telling us how they put off going to college because of algebra, how they struggled for years to try and understand algebra, but couldn’t. My husband wrote the Guide and he has spent over 25 years tutoring students confused and frustrated by algebra. The Guide is written in a Q&A format, and mirrors many of the questions he’s heard over the years. Both of us worked on creating a book that would put people with negative feelings about algebra into a hopeful mindset. And from the comments we get, I think, by and large, we succeeded. We live in a town with lots of artists, and the Guide is filled with funny cartoons (by an award winning artist) that illustrate algebra concepts. The conversational style, and humor put people at ease … a big first step in understanding algebra. Then step-by-step instructions, analogies comparing algebra concepts to relatable, real-life situations and lots of practice problems gently nudge students towards understanding. If you look it up on, you’ll see the comments I’m talking about. Best of luck to all of you.

  • gmxusa

    Math is a combination of memorization and problem solving, but in order to get and retain these skills, a person will have to do plenty of exercise. There is no other way around it. Just opening a book and read it passively is not going to do it. And to complicate maters, every level of Math requires knowledge acquired from the level before. If a person had a weak beginning and doesn’t have basic concepts ingrained, it will become a problem down the road.

  • Vince Gotti

    Does any objective thinker out there think there may be a link to pot abuse by middle and high school students and their ability to learn and study mathematics? Not to mention all of the other distractions students face. It seems to correlate to me. There are certainly many difficulties students face in this age to get a focused education. Pot smoking is probably the worst thing a student can do for learning something new. Yet it is basically condoned by mainstream American society. Fuzzy logic.

    • Steve Webber

      Correlation does not equal causation. I may be mathematically illiterate, but I’m not scientifically illiterate.

    • AlgebraScam

      actually the pot smokers i knew in high school did BETTER in math the the non pot smokers. A friend was trying to get me into it when i was struggling with Algebra. She swore that it got the “juices flowing” and it was as if her brain opened up and was more “receptive”.
      I wouldnt know if this is true or not because i never tried Marijuana.


      I think you have an interesting point. I also suspect that if the foundations of math aren’t laid at a young age (just as parents do by reading to kids every night from day one), then intuitive logic and numeracy is not wired up properly in the brain. ALSO, many elementary teachers in the US are not comfortable with math and skimp on it or don’t really know how to teach it well leaving kids at a serious disadvantage. Furthermore, urban schools often present a teacher with literally 3-5 different grade levels of math that must be taught within ONE homeroom if it were to be taught properly. I hear they deal with this routinely in England, but can’t vouch for that or explain how they do it effectively. I can pretty much guarantee you that teaching programs do not prepare teachers for that any where in the country. Sometimes the kids who are way behind have a learning disability but the school resists evaluating the students, further nullifying the time and effort of said homeroom teacher. Private and suburban schools don’t face these type of problems (and this is just the math part of it). All in all, the problems of urban education are huge.

  • Niki

    I think it’s ridiculous to have to take anything beyond basic algebra, unless you are going into a field that requires math, like an engineer, chemist, pharmacist, etc….as long as kids can add, subtract, multiply, divide, measure liquids, measure with rulers, tape measure, etc, then it’s just a waste of time. Kids are struggling with basic English classes, why not focus on reading and writing skills rather than useless advanced math that no one uses (unless it’s part of their job)

  • Jason Lippe

    I have to agree with LAH, i am a parent of 2 young girls, work full time, wife works full time, stressed and struggling to keep up with life itself and pay my bills. I am 40 yrs old and trying to earn a certificate in an engineering field. I cannot pass algebra, 3 times so far failed, i am not stupid by any stretch of imagination, i just do not understand it. I have spent literally 4 hours some night doing home work, working through problems, i just do not grasp it. Can i drag the whole class down by going through problems again and again, probably, but not fair to others. I regret to say that i gave up on the whole thing, for financial and time/schedule reasons mainly. Do i think i could eventually do it, yes.Can i afford a tutor, NO. Do i have time to spend at school for a free tutor,NO. I am not going to sit here and say its impossible, but it is very hard. I was excellent at basic/intermediate math, for the life of me i cannot grasp algebra. Its honestly very upsetting.

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  • Thomas Morris III

    You are a fool. Sorry, but it is true. Someday maybe you will have the ability to see that. Please take a psychology course and try to understand HOW some people learn.

  • Noreen M Anthony-Tabar

    I am kinda in the same situation. After 23 years in the Navy, retiring this year 2015. So I set up in 2014 to go back to a community college then transfer to a state college. I took the placement exam and received a 40 in the math, + 20 yrs ago, I had taken a few classes at the same community college, and did a math class passed with a C+. When I was getting my education plan for classes, I was told I had to take intermediate algebra and geometry. I told the counselor I feel uncomfortable with this math class, told to petition to re-take the other math class. and they told me “no repeats on classes already passed.” the first day of that math class and I was totally lost, the teacher could see that. I stayed till the end of the class told her my story, and she gave me the Math department’s #. I spoke with on of them. And was told the same thing, “no repeats on classes already passed.” It was suggested to take a 1 unit class for intermediate algebra and geometry refresher math class . I ended up dropping that math class and taking that other one. It is also an online course and there is a 3 hour math lab requirement

  • Melanie

    I am a straight A college student and can’t pass my required math classes. A Fine Art major and professional photographer…I get A’s in English, History, Science, Communications, Art…all of it! Except math. Can’t pass. My brain goes in circles and then shuts down. I have taken intermediate algebra twice from community college unsuccessfully. Now I’m wondering if it’s useless because I can’t find an alternative for this art brain. Thanks for sharing. I still feel frustrated to the point of tears but at least I don’t feel alone.

  • F. de

    I spent three full years of college (two different city colleges) enrolled in pre and pre-pre algebra, algebra and three different statistics classes before finally getting to UC where I never thought about math again. I feel your pain. I don’t know what got me through (aside from a very supportive and math-minded partner and tutor). My arts degree hasn’t landed me an awesome career, but it fed my mind and my heart and I’m still in the arts today, more than a decade after FINALLY graduating. Now I find myself wringing my hands with my daughter as she struggles through 3rd grade math. Getting through those college math classes was the hardest thing I did in my academic career, and I think it taught me that I could get through almost anything if I just DON’T give up. I failed repeatedly! But I got back up, headed to class, and went for it again. And again. The time after math that I spent in University was well worth the struggle.

  • Dana Hughes

    That is just sad! Who really uses Algebra? Preventing bright people from getting a college degree because they cannot pass something they will NEVER use is wrong.I have a degree and still think Algebra is totally useless.Unless you are going into the math field, all you need is math basics and common sense.

    • langen7

      Everyone in the fields of business management, information systems, all the sciences, and computer programming use algebra on a weekly if not daily basis. It’s so ingrained to the study of their fields that they don’t even call it algebra. The variables and formulas they work with are nearly readily available to all given the proliferation of the internet. This idea that calculation is enough is quite backwards given the availability of technology that can easily handle the calculation, up to and beyond algebra and into the calculus.

      Algebra is about the study of what needs to be quantified and what patterns emerge from the relationships of certain concepts than completing the square or the quadratic function. Just because that part is included to try to give a nuts and bolts understanding doesn’t mean it encompases everything.

      • Wilhelm Felix

        You don’t need algebra for programming (i do this for a living without a degree) all you need is a baisc math skills. You only need Algebra if you are a scientist or math major.

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  • Summer Elnowno

    I’m honestly failing Algebra 2 with flying colours. I don’t know why algebra is like this for me, I can pass an AP class with straight A’s but can’t pass algebra I just don’t get it. I’m struggling really badly its been this way for years ever since 7th grade when I first took algebra it’s just been so difficult. Taking the test over and over and over, is not helping It actually makes things worse, I don’t know what to do anymore.

    • AlgebraScam

      It seems that the only way to get around the “system” these days is to get a diagnosis of Dyscalculia (Math disability) from a diagnostician or educational psychologist. The school will be required to offer a substitute class to satisfy graduation requirements or considerable modifications in the algebra class. Students have also done this for college to satisfy college graduation requirements by taking another math class other than College Algebra.

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  • AlgebraScam

    I ended up getting a bachelor’s degree in Psychology by taking a statistics course which i understood much better than college algebra. They accepted it as a substitute for College Algebra. This was years ago at Excelsior College (though the majority of classes were through University of Maryland).
    I will never understand the obsession colleges have with College Algebra. They say that even if you dont use it in your career that you use it in everyday life but i disagree. I use simple math(adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, percents), geometry and/or financial math in my everyday life. I am almost 50 and have yet to use Algebra in the “real world”. Oh and almost everyone i have spoken to have either failed algebra at high school and/or college level or have developed a HATRED for math thanks to Algebra. People that once had hopes getting a degree in anything- gave up solely because of Algebra. They typically had no problems with other math classes just Algebra.
    The bottom line is this—until students drop out in droves due to Algebra and it hits the college pocketbook they will not eliminate it. Algebra should not be a requirement for any student that is not taking hard sciences or math.

  • AlgebraScam

    I am no religious fanatic but someone once told me that they stayed away from Algebra because they truly believed it was a Satanic language. That was a first.

  • AlgebraScam

    John its ironic that 27 years ago when i was in school, math teachers were crying the same song “if you dont learn it, its because you are lazy, not studying enough, entitled etc”
    I was the type of student that literally spent 6-8 hours a day studying. I operated on little sleep just so i could study. Even when i had enough sleep i still didn’t get Algebra. I tried working out to get more oxygen to my brain, supplements, tutors-ungodly amount that cost a small fortune, after school tutoring with teachers etc etc. NOTHING WORKED.
    In the end my high school teachers AND college math professor blamed it on my so called “Laziness”. I should have sued for defamation of character, at least i would have gotten something out of the class.
    Given that THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of students which have struggled with and barely passed Algebra, if they passed at all, i have come to the conclusion that the problem lies with the TEACHER/PROFESSOR’s INABILITY to EFFECTIVELY teach the subject. Starting at the middle school level, progressing through highschool and college.

  • Hello, my name is Jonathan. I run a blog called College Kid Now What. I find this article very compelling. And I’ve seen firsthand how many bright and promising students are stopped in their tracks by introductory Algebra and Statistics courses. I’ve even seen students pass CALCULUS yet still struggle with Statistics or Algebra, and therefore they were slowed down or prevented from obtaining a degree.

    This is a problem. A big one. I want to help stop this from happening. In college and grad school i actually took extra statistics courses because i thought it was “fun”. I passed college Algebra in high school. Until recently, i did not realize how odd this is…

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    Like i said, don’t expect a full, expertly designed interface just yet. But i promise i CAN get you results. Again email me at to get the conversation started.

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  • I hate that this happened to you. Even students that are good at math find themselves struggling at the college level.

  • Myrna

    What a great article. I wish you luck and to someday go back to school to pursue your dream. You may already be living the dream. I see it this way, earning a degree does not in no means say you are smarter than the person sitting behind you. Believe me, I see it everyday. The person sitting behind you may have more common sense but did not have the means to attend college for whatever the reason may be. Good luck!!

  • Yujin

    can someone help me? I’m in seventh grade, and I have good grades and straight A+’s, but I didn’t make it into algebra when I took the test at the beginning of the year (I had just moved, and then took the test to see if I could get in). Now I’m in seventh accelerated and the course is pretty easy for me, and I find myself wondering if I could’ve maybe gotten into algebra. Also, most of my friends are in algebra and it makes me feel lower and dumber that they’re going into higher maths. Also, it makes me a bit jealous since they will be in higher maths and will be better prepared to get accepted into colleges. I want to be an engineer when I grow up but I find myself being discouraged, is there anything I can do to go into a higher math or at least be more on the level of preparedness as my friends?


      Unless you have test anxiety,you are most likely in the appropriate class for your competency level. If you try to artificially propel yourself forward in math, you could easily do more harm than good because most math systems in the US build one level on top of the other. If you jump ahead, there will be gaps in a lower level making the next level harder, if not impossible without going BACK to what you skipped and trying to learn that first thing FAST ALONG with the second thing- NOT A WISE STRATEGY take it from someone who did it- ME. It’s ugly and painful and stressful.

      If you are really determined to move forward there are probably ways but without knowing your circumstances, it’s hard to advise you. For example, over the summer you could take algebra. It will probably be an accelerated version and you will miss swimming, video games, and chasing girls. How badly do you want it? Also, you or your parents will probably have to pay for the class. Even public schools don’t want to pay for kids to take classes they don’t NEED. Please consult with your parents and/or school counselor and/or math teachers. Talk to as many people as you can. Also, universities offer extension course. That may be an option. I commend you for even thinking about this. Also consider that you accelerate yourself in math, you may well be in the position of taking calculus by your senior year. I would only recommend that to kids that really excel at math and like it a lot or want to pursue the math subjects in college as you have mentioned.

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  • Helen R. Robare

    I went back to college at the age of 56 and…everything was great until I was told I had to take an Algebra course! Took me SEVEN semesters/tries to pass it and I did that just barely! Then I find out that for a General Studies/Liberal Arts degree I need to take Algebra II. I tried…I truly did but there’s no way I could afford to take that course more than once. And because I had to take the first Algebra seven times…I ended up with 150 credits so they sent me a letter saying I couldn’t get any state aid (Tap or Pell Grants) until after 2015 because I had so many credits and hadn’t graduated. So I quit going. :( Maybe I’ll go back in the fall…since it will be the beginning of the 2016 year but I have to find a degree (besides an art degree…I can mess up a stick figure. I think I’m worse in art than Algebra!) that doesn’t need that second Algebra course.
    I didn’t mind the courses…in fact I liked how everything depends on the preceeding lessons and how ordered it all is and there is a great satisfaction in seeing a whole column of your problem and knowing you did it right but it was very very very frustrating for me. I have Dyscalculia ( which is a brain-based condition that makes it hard to make sense of numbers and math concepts.) I was hoping I could get an exception so I could get my degree without Algebra but no such luck. :(

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  • stacey

    I am currently going through this right now. This is my 5 th attempt at retaking my college algebra. I am so frustrated and stressed out because once again I am failing the class, but the first two weeks I actually did well! I don’t understand why this keeps happening to me, I use the resources, I have got tutoring, but nothing is helping me and the math classes are all I have that’s left for me to graduate! I am so angry!! Its not fair that they make the math so difficult, and on top of that they make you take it in order to graduate! I have a lot of college loans to pay back, and this is not fair if I don’t graduate!!!!!

  • Holly

    Why can I not do good in the world with the things I am actually good at? I am extremely frustrated and sad. I am not stupid, just not smart enough to be good enough to you..?

  • Hahns

    I was good at math until they decided to mix the alphabet in it.

  • Keener

    I am also unable to pass college algebra. It’s the only class keeping from graduating. I am going to try to petition the university to replace with alogics course. Any suggestions for a compelling argument?

  • Peanut

    I am currently in algebra and its the last subject i need to get my associates degree. I HATE IT!!!!!

  • Sophie

    I got my first D on my test today it counts for 50% of my grade and I am so mad right no that I could smash a mirror Now I have a 70 for my grade but I am going to get a A in all my class and I will show her whos boss

  • Victor Andrade

    I received my middle school and high school math education in Central America Guatemala, where education in general means very little to the government and people in general. However, those of us who attended school and received algebra classes were able to understand it, learn it, and pass without major trouble. Years later I moved to California to get my college education and algebra at the college level seemed like a joke to me. it was super simple and easy. As a student I was able to become a supplemental instructor for the Math Department at LBCC. The first thing I learned was the negative attitude that the general student body has about math and algebra. They go to their first day of class only hoping to pass. There are several other issues that could make a student unsuccessful, but starting right away with a negative attitude doesn’t help. But the biggest gap I noticed was between students and teachers. I experienced it as a student and as an instructor. Teachers speak math, but students don’t. It doesn’t help that the average math teacher lacks basic communications skills. There should be an English accent standard requirement for those teachers (sorry Mr. C-H-O). And if they are native speakers, it doesn’t help that they explain what is written in a text book. they basically read from textbooks. In my former math education we did not have textbooks, we created them. At the end of the term our final assignment was to turn in our note books. We cared about cleanliness and accuracy. I don’t want to say that every student should understand math as easily as everything else, but if they started with a positive attitude and had better role models (teachers) then things would be different .

    In concussion I think that the education system, not the students are to blame for the lack of match and algebra performance in California and the US. Remember that not one kid is born knowing math, but all of them can learn it. Just like I learned how to write en this Language.



      Thank you for an interesting and intelligent perspective.

      • Thomas Eastham

        Long post so here we go.

        Felt like leaving a post here because it’s relevant to my life. I had a few rocky periods in my K-12 math education. For a long time I struggled with feelings of inadequacy (am I too dumb to do this?). My 7th grade pre-algebra teacher was very aggressive, and she basically treated me as if I were lazy even though I spent hours each day working on the homework and getting Cs on the tests. Interestingly enough, when I got to algebra in 8th grade, I had a patient teacher who–no buts about it–taught me critical things that my 7th grade math teacher had simply not explained to us at all (for instance that there is a really easy way to factor quadratic expressions if they have rational solutions).

        This failure to teach critical topics occurred again in my high school algebra 2 class. These issues were remedied partly in my precalculus class, but then I failed to understand the nature of exponential functions, though I was able to do simple problems, say the most basic a^x form. Because of this lack of understanding I completely bombed the final test over logs. I got a B in the class, and I think that was fair. There weren’t many tests, and I didn’t do well at all on one of them. Of course I also missed most of the log/exponential related problems on the final, which I got a high C on. My 8th grade algebra and 9th grade geometry teachers are the only math teachers in this sequence I consider worthy of the title. The ones I had trouble understanding (or who failed to teach some of the material) interestingly have reputations for being amazing teachers, but I assume this is some matter of oral tradition in the community now.

        I was a music major my first time in college, and I took a finite math course because that’s all I needed. I had a 29 on my ACT math, which could have placed me in precalculus, but I didn’t need it so why would I put myself through it again (I thought at the time)? But I didn’t have a hatred for math. I just thought I wasn’t particularly outstanding at it. I later had an episode of major depression and left school even though my academic performance was fine. It was a case of something really bad happening to me that the school swept under the rug combined with extreme burnout.

        Fast forward two years, and I went back to school, determined to study physics. I knew of no way to refresh what math I had learned, and a lot of what ability I had accumulated had atrophied. I was placed in precalculus (again due to that ACT score), and it took me about four days to realize I wasn’t even treading water. I went back to taking a not-for-credit algebra and algebra 2 course that semester.

        That changed everything. I finally got to be a witness to a truly accomplished math instructor. Every leak in my understanding of algebra was patched. College algebra and precalculus (which was basically a rehash of college algebra plus trigonometry, which was also not covered at all in my high school algebra 2 or precal courses) were a breeze after this. I walked into calculus 1 unsure of what to expect. Was I finally going to get suckerpunched by a course that would flip the table on my GPA?

        Long story short, it didn’t. I got an A. I also got an A in my introductory calc based physics course. It felt easy. I have an A at midterm now in my calculus 2 class and a B in my thermodynamics course (and even that grade is turning around as I put in the extra elbow grease I realized I needed after the first test). These two courses take a lot of mental gymnastics, but I wouldn’t call it a struggle at all. Solving a difficult problem and getting it correct is a very viscerally satisfying experience that drives me to keep going.

        All of this to say that as far as my issues with math were concerned, I am absolutely certain they can be attributed to “teachers” who failed to communicate effectively (or even try to at all in the case of trigonometry) certain foundation level topics in my K-12 math education.

        But it’s also to say this. To that student I have class with that has your phone out all the time, or speaks disdainfully to the professor, or constantly bemoans whether you’ll ever actually use any of this in the real world: I know who is doing poorly and who is doing well in my classes. I don’t have to see grade books or anything like that. I just know from reading people. If you have dyscalculia (and I have a friend who does), then you can say you aren’t a math person. But even my friend who has it has been able to make progress when her disability is accommodated. I have even been able to help her with a lot of math topics, explaining them in ways she is able to conceptualize.

        Most of the people who I sit in class with who are doing more poorly than they would like are simply not working at it enough. I’ve seen it in all the people who complained about their grade after every exam. They couldn’t understand how they got a C. My favorite math professor said that if you were getting Cs on his quizzes and tests you were doing the bare minimum of what it takes for you to learn material. I think this is a pretty accurate assumption. People getting Cs would not do all the homework, and would miss one class meeting every week or two weeks. People doing less and showing up less overwhelmingly perform worse. And honestly, “enough” doesn’t have to be that much. An hour a day goes a long way for me, and while that critical mass varies from person to person, I don’t think I have an exceptional mind for mathematics.


        When people tell me they don’t understand how they’re not doing as well as they’d like in a math course, I am immediately guarded against their reasoning. I expect people who complain about this to be doing little or nothing to improve their outlook. But I can say for myself that I have had some major duds as far as teachers go in the past. And I think I know exactly what to look for in a teacher’s methods to know if they are going to fall into that category. Also dyscalculia is real, and more power to you for toughing it out in spite of that.

        • Jim Thomasson

          Thank you! Thank you for your comment. I’ve been reading all of these comments and replies from math professors and teachers blaming the student without taking a look at themselves. I’ve had three children go through the California educational system (my last ones are graduating this year) It has been an aggravating, maddening trip watching how poorly trained the math teachers here are. It wasn’t laziness on my children’s part. We spent hours each night going over math, hiring tutors, watching khan academy videos, etc.., and still it was a struggle. The school district math teachers were poor to awful. Maybe they knew the concepts but their attempt to communicate this knowledge to their students was generally poor. The worst case was 7th grade when all but 3 out of a class of 30 students failed pre algebra because the teacher was so bad. They are also hamstrung by a curriculum that is solely geared towards the state tests and not truly learning the concepts. In grade school the kids were introduced to a math concept and barely had time to absorb it before they went on to something else that had no connection to the previous concept. By the time many of these students get through high school they are so fatigued by their math struggles that their whole attitude towards math is going to be negative. A good teacher makes the difference between a successful student and a failed student. It’s been my experience that a number of students take to math like a duck takes to water, that no matter how poor the teacher is they will still be able to understand the subject. Then there are a large number of students that aren’t so fortunate and need better instruction in order to understand the concepts. if the teacher can’t communicate, the regular student is going to do poorly or fail.

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  • Tyler Plass

    I think the issue is broader than this blog post lets on and fails to even consider that maybe his teachers were just bad. I would have loved to take more Math and Science classes when in college, but a lot of my time was eaten up by general education requirements for other fields that I similarly don’t use in my current job. I encountered issues with those classes not having clear instruction or having unfamiliar requirements for graded assignments.

    I’m just dissapointed that the blaim is pointed towards Algebra. Why not blame the college for making a requirement and then failing to assist you in completing that requirement? KCRW is a place to embrace your curiosity, not get reaffirmed that it’s ok to not understand concepts.


      …And why not drop all requirements? And why not rainbows and unicorns all day every day?

      Im not saying a math learning disability isn’t real, but stop blaming everything BUT the disability. Poor reasoning skills there but I suppose you will blame my education for giving me enough reasoning skills to see your lack of them…

  • Build or Destroy

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  • Cinthia Garcia

    Wow, this use to be me. I went from Community College to CC exhausting my attempts at passing PRE-Algebra. Not even College Algebra! Then I finally came across a professor who is phenominal! If you happen to be in Northern California. Check out Robin Carters’ Math Courses at College of the Redwoods. You really just have to wait till you are ready to learn it. I had to focus one whole semester on math. Since I’m pursuing engineering, I really wanted to finally get along with Algebra. It’s possible ya’ll! Tedious but possible! And now I hear about Common Core math being taught to the younger generations. Good luck!!!! I’d also like to thank for their fun site interface. Makes math fun! Can you tell I’m excited about finally understanding it??

  • Denise

    Algebra is a set of instructions. If you follow the instructions, you pass algebra. If you don’t follow instructions, then you won’t pass algebra. In my opinion, if you can’t do that, maybe you aren’t college material. Not everyone gets a trophy in this life, and not everyone should have a college degree.

    • fotw150

      What a load of tripe. You are arrogant and smug.

      • Denise

        if you can’t walk the walk, that’s not my problem. I got my bachelors and two masters–on scholarship and stipends. What you got?

        • capotravelmom

          “What you got?” Well, for starters, English fluency is what I got, along with a masters degree assisted by scholarships.

  • bvolsky

    This is scary! Algebra is being able to tell apart two numbers! To see what happened to one quantity to make it the other one! You can’t really do reality without that ability. Any kind of plan is algebra, making a goal is algebra. You have a goal, y, and you have to do something to something to your current situation, x to make it y. I want to make this amount of money, get here at this time, not be broke on this date, do this many pushups, eat this many meals, walk this many steps. How can you even make a decision if you can’t make a guess how it’s going to turn out?

    This is plain old anxiety. I have the same problem with writing papers. 760 on SAT verbal, 4 on AP English COMPOSITION, but if I’m handed a writing assignment I can’t read letters and I get heart palpitations, and almost didn’t pass the class where I took said AP English exam, almost didn’t pass high school.

    Trust me, this problem has nothing to do with Algebra. There is something that educators, parents, and society is doing to kids to freak them out.

  • bvolsky

    To be fair, the evolutionary psych perspective starts with an ideal caveman brain that voted for Eisenhower, and Stanford was (is…) a eugenics hothouse.

  • Lucas Wheatcroft

    So I’m in my first semester of college and I’m taking algebra, psychology, info systems I, English Comp 2, and medical terminology– all online through National Park College, Hot Springs, Arkansas. I work about 30 hrs/week as a cashier for a department store and I live in Germany with my family.
    I have my final exams and I know I’ll do well on all classes except algebra. I don’t even know if I’m going to pass that course, to be honest, given that I have always done badly in math and barely passed my high school math and physics courses. My school requires one semester of algebra as a pre-requisite to applying for a radiologic technology program, and I have to get a C or higher to pass algebra.
    This is quite a stressfull situation.

  • Caleb Chandler

    I had a very hard time with college algebra. I too thought about how useless a quadratic equation is in real life. I knew that I had to buckle down and get it done. I spent about 120 hours learning and practicing and finally passed. I think that practicing is the key to remembering. Just keep doing the problems until you can map out each step in your head. Don’t give up. I know that some people have it worse than others and I do agree that a writer does not need math but that is the way that the school system runs.

  • DiscoverPlatinum .

    It’s been 2.5 years since you wrote this article, but I feel compelled to comment anyway. I have the exact same feeling and experience with college algebra. I took the class 3 times at my first college. The first time, I just failed. The second time, I dropped the class. The third time, I took 3 $25/hour tutoring sessions during the semester. While I earned an 86% on one exam during that time, I still failed the class with a 57% average. I was worried at this point. Eventually, I transferred to another University in another state. I satisfied my math requirements with Math Appreciation, which I earned a C, and Computer Studies, which I earned a B. And now, I have a Masters degree. Maybe I just lucked up and went to a school with more options. You might have to do that. In any case, I hope that you resolved this matter by now. Good luck!

  • Buford T. Justice

    Fifty years from now math profs & teachers will look back on our obsession with algebra and either guffaw or shake their heads — so many wonderful, essential & relevant branches to the math tree within reach of young people at the peak of their powers, living in a time of unprecedented sci & tech change — the strides in number theory to name an example — and we wasted all this potential on three-year museum tours of quadratic factorization et al.

    Algebra is foundational to nothing: Any serious math class can serve it up on the fly in a more vital branch of the subject. It’s the classical Latin of our age.

  • JustAnotherOneOfThoseHumans

    Two sites that will be useful for the commenters on this post.

    Remember no matter what anyone tells you, you are freaking brilliant!!

  • Don

    In my school, you don’t even have to be right. Just fill in some numbers on ALL the problems of a worksheet, and it’s an automatic 100. Really easy work.. my algebra teacher knows that, hence why he makes it easy for us. He knows algebra is almost useless in life, so it’s better to just get it over with… whether the students are right or wrong he doesn’t care. He gets his paycheck and is a cool dude.

  • AlphaBeta

    I had a lot of trouble with math in school, too. I was fortunate to go on to college and even received my PhD–in the humanities (philosophy and rhetoric). The strange thing is that once I went to college I took (arguably) three math classes over eight years (and all three classes were actually in my first two semesters of undergrad): College Algebra (required to graduate with a BA in English), Physics I Non-Calculus (another requirement), and Macroeconomics, which included a bit of statistics. I never once used any of the knowledge gained in those three classes in grad school, and I certainly don’t use any of it now as a professor of rhetoric.

  • Pingback: Why I Hate College…in High School | Reflecting on My Education()

  • Nikki Brooks

    You should go get tested for Dyscalculia and then have the college accomodate you. It is a Math/Number Sense disability – much similar to Dyslexia…except for Math concepts. Don’t be embarassed by it – its fairly new in comparison to other disabilities, however its legitimate. Please do it now before you torture yourself further. There is nothing wrong with you – its a simple thing that you have never been accomodated for so don’t allow it to hold you back in life. It’s not about trying hard enough…that would be like telling a Dyslexic person to try harder to not see letters backwards. It just… IS. Please look it up and then go from there. Your life will be better because of it.

  • Nikki Brooks

    Take a look at this website for College Accomodations for Dyscalculia. You will need to be diagnosed (fairly easy, but could your area and check with adult learning centers and disability services), and you will HAVE to self advocate. Do NOT pay for another remedial course, and please look into alternative methods discussed here. In addition, another option is to go to another college… out of state or online.. AS A FRESHMAN…meaning don’t include your previous transcript. You will qualify for financial aid unless you are in a state of garnishment…(which takes a long time and you have to be out of deferments.) Then, take a substituted course that the new college will accept.. all you need is to have it on your transcript as a credit, and then if you WANT – transfer the transcript back to the old college… OR AFTER you have been there a semester successfully, transfer the OLD credits into the new college. You may have some course overlap or medium hours requirement if you stay at the new college, but it will work. You will have to be informed and again, you will have to SELF-ADVOCATE, but you can do it. Good luck!

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  • Влад Кузь

    Hey, don’t feel bad. When I was in high school I came within 2 points of failing algebra 1. After that I forced myself to get better at math by finding something I absolutely love that requires math. After this, I skipped a year of math and took calc 2 and ap stats senior year. After 2 years at Rutgers University I transferred to Cornell where I am currently majoring in physics and computer science with a math minor. It is possible, you just need to WANT to learn it, otherwise forcing yourself would be a waste of time and energy.

  • Squally Colbert

    You shouldn’t let that stop you. I’m almost 40 (38 in three months) returning to school and having the opposite happen to me. Literature(English 1B) is we’re I’m having trouble with and math & science I’m doing A+ work. I need to pass this Enlish 1B class, this is that last English requirement that I need to move on. But it’s so much reading and tons of essay that I hardly understand. My professor wrote a little note to me on one of my essays saying that
    ” I know you put in a lot of hard work, but you will need to take this class again next semester.” Which sucks because I feel like I’m not young, I don’t have all this time to waste by repeating classes and I’m just ready to do more math & science classes for my major( civil engineering) not a literature class( this class is no fun).
    But next semester I’ll be back on the grind trying to past this English 1B class again. I know it sucks but don’t give up, just go harder next time. Don’t let that one class stop you from finishing college. The math class just might click for you after the 8th time. I’m hoping that this English 1B class will click for me next time around.

    Good luck
    You can do it

    Almost 40 & still in college

  • Steven Berry

    I feel exactly the same as this article author does – the biggest problem is, i’m not in LA.

    I get angry when i can’t finish or understand math. and because of it. I overspend when i need to be frugal, and I’m able to track money but can’t figure out how manage it. it’s becomming a bigger problem with our vacation time, and working harder to pay bills. this is endless. I tried very hard to get a degree in computer science. but I use so many excuses about why I didnt pass. instead of the real one. I’m afraid to take the math classes.

  • Kevin Eli Rivera

    I’m 23, i’ve been in college for 5 years (community college) while many people I know, almost has their master degree’s and have completed their bachelor’s, some having families, God bless them. I was in probation because I failed math twice, and dropping a math class because I was failing it, TUTORING DIDN”T HELP!! I just don’t understand how in the world people with some learning disabilities, whether its in science or languages and math, can transfer to a university to pursue their degree. There is a saying “School is not for everyone” and I agree with it without a doubt. I’m a creative perso currently in culinary school, which is my last hope to actually succeed in life, and if possible, get married. School is something that this country, the US requires for “high pay jobs” and financial problems is one of the leads to divorce, it’s all about MONEY MONEY MONEY!! You want a roof under your head pursue a degree! According to what school taught me, but I don’t think it’s true, Many Vocational certification graduates actually live under a roof, even if it means having roomates, but hey, it’s life, reality ain’t a fair one, but there is something sweet in life too. God bless you all, don’t give up, because we will just end up not carring about our future, and live miserable lives if we aren’t happy with a part-time job as a only solution…Enjoy life everyday is if it were your last, in a good way, not in a way that leads you to darkness.

  • monimillie33

    BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO!!!! Thank you very much sir!

  • chamelean75

    To be honest, I’ve never met anyone who couldn’t pass algebra until I read this article. Math is hard for me but I worked hard. No tutors. I didn’t hang out with friends and I didn’t go out on weekends but I passed the class.

  • Sandra Claus

    I have over 190 hours of college. I have a GPA of 3.25 and I have one class between me and my Bachelor of Science. Algebra! I have taken Pre-algebra twice, hired a tutor and attempted teaching myself. Oh and Alek. I have a visual learning disability and was just told by a neuropsychologist that I may never learn it!

  • Isaac Euler

    Honestly, not offensively, if you fail Algebra 7 times, it means you’re not college material. Not everyone is; it’s okay.

    • capotravelmom

      Honestly, those of us who attended college 40 years ago were not required to take Algebra. We were definitely college material. My husband and I both received the coveted “Outstanding Graduate” award (given to only one person a year by the faculty based on scholarship, thesis, performance, GPA, and comprehensive exams) in our field when we received our Masters Degrees. My husband is employed at a university where he is admired and treasured for his skills and expertise. So, don’t tell us that we are not college material. We are not mathematicians….on that I will agree.

  • Evan Huff

    In all honesty I have struggled with math my entire life. I have just seemed to slide by in each progressing level of mathematics, gaining just barely a C every year and later every semester in college until I came to Calculus II. In high school I took algebra and had to spend ever day after school working with the teacher, or with other math teachers to just barely stay with the class. It was this extra time that I put into algebra that somehow later on became a mastery of the skill which in turn helped me progress through more advanced classes. The first class I ever failed was my sophomore year in college, Calculus II. In defense, I could of passed the class but I lacked the motivation or perhaps the interest in mathematics in general. I was crushed, I told myself I would never fail a single class, I was always a hard worker and failure is something that I take on a personal level. The second attempt at first I was motivated to succeed, the motivation of the past failure was still on my mind but after earning a 90% on the first of three tests my motivation to succeed was gone with the slight sign of success. I in turn earned a 60% on the next test and a 50% on the last one. With tests, homework’s, and quizzes included my grade in the class before the final was 62% and I needed a at least a 80% on the final to succeed. Knowing the final was covering all the material that we went over in the class which was a tremendous amount of knowledge that one must not only understand but master all aspects in to obtain just a perfect score I was back in the corner were I put myself the first time I took the class. I would like to include that the college which I took Calculus II there was a 50% drop out rate, and 50% of the remaining students enrolled do not pass the class, I believe it is because the class is designed for students to master calculus II and not just have a basic understanding because you would not be able to pass the subsequent class that follows, Calculus III. In the end I spent practically every free moment going over two classes of homework, tests, and quizzes multiple times until I could complete each one 100% correctly. I then took to having to complete each homework, quiz, and test in the order in which is was assigned in class until I could complete the entire two semesters worth of work at 100%. Which only really developed the basic understanding and comprehension of material, I was fluent in the general problems but in order to succeed on the final I would have to master the material because all the questions on the final are to test the mastery of the skills learned in class. So I spent the last two days attempting, failing, and learning from 12 prior finals until the day the final exam came and just in time because my hard work paid off and I took the exam and couldn’t believe the difference all the practicing and continual practicing of the material gave me from the previous semesters final. While I breezed through the final and was probably one of the first students in the class to complete the test I spent the remaining time going over all of my work multiple times feeling that I had a perfect test. (definitely not the first to complete the test I must say because my intelligence comes from my hard work ethic and fear of failure, while there are some people gifted with unbelievable natural intelligence and it comes off that college courses are as easy to them as elementary courses would be to me.) But I turned my test finally when time was up and I took a look at the correction final that the teachers use to grade I was shocked that I had left out the most basic finishing touches one must to do to a problem for it to correct (proofs, or statements) on two of the problems. I was so irritated with myself because I knew all the answers but I was so preoccupied by the extensive math and making sure it was correct that I forgot to add the finishing touches on some of the longer problems. I found out a couple days later that I earned an unbelievable 95 or 98% on the final exam which was something I did not even think I could accomplish, I didn’t even believe if I could even obtain the 80% to pass the class. My final grade rose from a D- to a B- and it was one of the most rewarding experiences to believe that failure was most likely but not caving into the pressure and to press on for success or failure. In all the time I spent mastering the skills required in the class I gained a fascination with mathematics and the desire to continue to learn more even though it was the last math class I needed for my major. I feel I will take calculus III and diffy-q over summer at my community college to better expand and develop my knowledge of mathematics and understanding of what I already know. In the end the class taught me a few valuable life lessons, one which was how important mathematics was, and one of the many others that you can never accept failure even when the chance for success is minimal. Because giving up is not for the successful, one setback… even many set backs should not be an excuse to give up on your dreams. Anyone that has been extremely successful at what they put their life work too was setback repeatedly and if they gave up on their dreams we would not have many of the inventions we take for granted, mathematics, or sciences that make the world what it is today. If you could not over come your struggles with algebra in high school than you were destined to fail in college because there are many classes that challenge you which are out of your interest of study that are mandatory for you to take in order to be a well rounded person that would be able to function in the real world after graduation and be more marketable to employers. These days college is looked at as a place were you specialize in a degree, but college is about higher learning and expanding ones knowledge of numerous topics. College is not only to just learn and be proficient in your area of study but also to weed out those that do not have the discipline to there study which would reflect in the discipline and work ethic they would have in the work place. In this would you can either be a reactive person (One that places blame, and complains about the things that are outside of their control that holds them back from reaching their full development) or a proactive person ( that acts on things that are within there control and does not worry about the things outside of their control). I will leave with these reasons why mathematics is so important to even those that do not take majors that require them.

    Mathematics helps you to understand the world around you.
    Basic mathematical principles are used everywhere.
    Mathematics is needed for problem-solving and analysis.
    Higher mathematical requirements would reduce the number of people with degrees.
    Lack of mathematics skills reduce your career options.
    Mathematics help in pattern recognition.
    Mathematics is the language of nature. (Science)
    Society depends on mathematics.
    Non-technical majors should require mathematics courses, just like engineering majors must study humanities. (No one is amazing at all of the various fields of studies but the point of college is to become well rounded in all studies.)
    Non-technical majors should study mathematics so they can communicate with technical majors in the workplace.
    Diversity in all education makes you a better person, and more employable.
    A college graduate should be better educated than someone who has not been to college.
    America needs more educated workers to compete in the global market.
    Learning mathematics makes you more intelligent.
    Some people absolutely have to study mathematics, to keep society going, and to invent new things.


    The study of mathematics teaches discipline.

  • Amandizum

    I’m crying while stuck two days before our final as I’ve been through elementary algebra, intermidate three times, and college algebra twice now. This is my last course of college to be the first of my family to have went to college and gained a degree.
    But I can’t.
    I already walked thinking I’d pass it over the summer. Wrong. No classes were offered when I could be there so I’m stuck doing it online AGAIN. so I searched “why am I not able to comprehend algebra” and first was this forum. Which brought me to more tears as so many of us struggle but no one is helping to solve this mystery. Study harder? The only way to do that is to beat my head with this book. I’m talented in photography, digital art, repetition.. But never math. I’m still looking for an answer as I’m sure all of you are too.

    • capotravelmom

      I’m with you Amandizum, as a person who attended college 4 decades ago when algebra was not a requirement (other options were Logic or Strategies for Teaching Math in Elementary School, for example) and as a mom of a student struggling in math, despite having better speaking and writing skills than about half of the college teachers he’s had so far. Regardless of the outcome in the immediate future, I am waging a war on this ridiculous expectation for students in Early Childhood Education, Art, Anthropology, Foreign Language, English, Philosophy, Music, Communications, History, Political Science, etc., etc., etc. I have composed a letter with links and I will be sending it to every college administrative board, the UC Regents, and everyone between the chairmen of Math Departments all the way to the governor of California. We don’t all have to be STEM students. If we are excluding intelligent, talented, and valuable young people from getting degrees based on one small aptitude in algebra, then we are doing ourselves a great disservice.

      • Amandizum

        I do hope you have success in your endeavor. I definitely agree. I finally counted my losses and dropped the course. It was all too sad considering I’ve been on the dean’s list for two years (every semester) in computer science courses and the current bachelor’s degree I’m in accepted my Intermediate Algebra course towards the math requirement yet, I’m unable to gain an associates..? I’m to the point of whatever and moving on with a private university that actually wants people to achieve in life. ;) Bellevue University has been amazing. My computer instructor sent me that way as he gained his bachelor’s from there. I’m currently in my 3rd course and love it. For anyone struggling with math, please check them out as they accept lower math requirements!!!

  • John D

    Algebra is designed to keep stupid people out of college and yes I am stupid. I cannot make head nor tail out of the sample questions to the admissions test for DeVry. I guess I am a load that should have been shot into a tissue. I really want to kill myself because I will always be a pauper living on disability and eating cat food for the rest of my life once my mother is gone.

  • GodsChick

    Ugh, people are differently abled. We are all smart in our own way and I strongly feel some minds we not created to grasp this higher type of math. I’m on the borderline…for the love of God….I don’t know how I passed algebra 1 and failing algebra 2 years ago is making me gun-shy about attempting it once again. We are not going to use this in our lifetime other than in a class to pass a test to jump through a hoop that man built. Why dear Lord, why!? It’s such agony. But I digress.

  • elKaiC

    I think this is the problem. Mathematics and a lot of education in general builds on material that you have learned previously. If you start struggling at an early age you are at a huge disadvantage later on in school so it just gets worse and worse.

  • buttercup76

    Not everybody is a math wiz and that is okay… My husband spits out numbers like i do sock.. I on the other hand can spell words most can’t pronounce.. I can recall History facts quick as well. No offense, if you had to pass a grade by giving lessons then you didn’t fairly earn that grade either.. Step back take pre-algebra and then try going to Algebra.. Sometimes it is a basic concept that is missed that is easier broke down in low level math or Pre-Algebra